Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years

Tefal said:
oh on that point nop it's not only happening in Palestine, it's a wide spread staple tactic of islamic groups.

iirc Nigeria had a spate where they mutilated the young boys removing hands and feet under trumped up theft or spying charges then told them that now they were disabled they should be a suicide bomber for the course. least that way their family would be cared for/they wouldn't be a burden.
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Israel and Zionists in general have a habit of accusing anyone who criticises the actions of the Israelis as being anti-Semitic. In my experience, critics of Israel who blame Jews in general are quite rightly shouted down.

You seem more than happy to allow your racist attitude to tar the Palestinians with the actions of Boko Haram.

There are thoroughly unpleasant Muslims all around the globe, they seem to harbour many of the most extreme religious fanatics around - that is not the explanation for the desperate resistance of the people of Palestine.
 
Noughtboy said:
You are correct in your first part and incorrect in the second. Israel phones, drops leaflets and provides "knock knocks" which provides civilians time to act as human shields voluntarily or under Hamas coercion.

If Israel does not proceed with the attack, they are accused of psychological warfare.

The UK was never in danger of destruction in WW2. Losing the Battle of Britain perhaps and possibly the war but never destruction. The USA was never in danger of destruction. Israel however in 1948, 1967, 1973 most certainly was and still today Hamas and it's ilk still for Israel's destruction and Death to the Jews.

So, all things considered, despite what you are seeing on the news and your views, I believe Israel is acting with significant restraint and responsibility. Does it get it wrong sometimes? Sure but considering the number of missions and the systematic and wide spread use by Hamas of human shields, l think the situation could be a lot worse.
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First you compared to world war 2 by mentioNing bombing of axis cities then you play it down by saying The allies weren't in danger?

I still stand by my post, in 1941 the Germans were victorious in Europe and had Moscow in there scopes.

A very real threat to the allied nations, nothing like the Palestinian threat to Israel.

Hence the allies using WMD and carpet bombing.

Yes Israel can be harsher then it is but they are a nation and politically they can not afford too.

Not a fan of Hamas I think they are partially to blame for the start of this but the repercussions of Israel's attacks are large civilian casualties and despite this they continue the same tactics knoWing it can not eliminate all the tunnels this way.

So they collectively punish the population of Palestine, some Israelis think this is the right thing to do as it makes Hamas less popular.
 
Head of the UN condemns this 'atrocious action' and says Israel must 'do far more to protect civilians'.

Over 500 dead Palestinians now, and over 3,500 wounded. Most of these were civilians including many women and children.
 
I think this is one of those situations where neither side can agree on a set of terms and conditions, each event seems to be revenge/retaliation for a prior event that caused a tragedy. I can't see Israel or Palestine ever making a truce, and this will only end when Israel wipe Gaza from the map. The western powers don't seem to be in much of a hurry to tell Israel to stop taking such an aggressive approach.
 
Craterloads said:
Yea I don't think 80% civilians casualties with most being women and children classes as showing restraint, especially with pin point weapons. Funnily Hamas with rudimentary unguided weapons has a significant higher civilian to non civilian ratio with 18 soldiers to 1 civilian death (even that death was whilst the civilian was on the battlefield within soldiers)
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To be fair though, that figure will be low anyway because the Isralis have the ability to protect themselves with their Ironshield or whatever it is called. So that figure is always going to be like that because those rockets are most likely going to get intercepted.

Maybe the Palestinians should be given the same setup, or maybe, just maybe, they both stop firing stuff at each other and get round a table and put a blooming end to it all!!??
 
Craterloads said:
Instead of focusing on the round about that is this conflict how about we discuss removing what is the source to these problems? Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine which results in natural opposition, Israel's illegal settlements, Israel's illegal blockade by land, air and sea, Israel's apartheid policies and all round injustice for the Palestine people? Israel's opposition to peace and a two state solution. Questioning the Palestinians resistance is as bad as questioning why Jews resisted the Nazi's in WW2.
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Its hard to argue with that and remain impartial to be honest.
 
Castiel said:
Its hard to argue with that and remain impartial to be honest.
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Surely that would depend on what he means by "Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine". From Hamas' point of view that would mean all of what used to be the British Mandate which is obviously unworkable.
 
They are both as bad as each other
Israel are just better at it

My solution to Gaza would be dont give them a single excuse to clobber you
Every missile or sucide bomb just gives them the thinnest tiny legitamacy to knock the stuffing out of you with impunity

Stop the rockets and bombs and plead for peace and it wont be long until the world would stop tolerating Israels dispropotiante offensives against you - take the moral high ground
 
AGD said:
Head of the UN condemns this 'atrocious action' and says Israel must 'do far more to protect civilians'.

Over 500 dead Palestinians now, and over 3,500 wounded. Most of these were civilians including many women and children.
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Israeli pin point attacks remind me of the commander artillery barrage from BF2 being focused on a 25 mile long and from 3.7 - 7.5 miles wide area containing 1.82 million people.


Where are 1.82million people supposed to go in such a small area to escape the rocket and artillery strikes?

but it's okay because israel dropped a few leaflets in the barrel telling all the fish to leave facepalm.jpg

GAZA is just one huge prison with no guards like the one ross kemp visited in Venezuela that had no guards and the inmates ran the place
 
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RDM said:
Surely that would depend on what he means by "Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine". From Hamas' point of view that would mean all of what used to be the British Mandate which is obviously unworkable.
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Being as Craterloads mentions the need for a Two State Solution in the same paragraph it would be somewhat difficult to assume he meant anything other than the Palestinian Territories or implies the destruction or dismantlement of Israel. It is a leap to think he was referring to the British Mandate of Palestine and still recognise his reference to The Two State Solution as being a way forward.

As I said, it difficult to argue with that statement and remain impartial. Thank you for illustrating that. ;)
 
The two state solution is the only solution, and has been since the creation of a jewish homeland, Israel.

The major problem is that Israel is intent on placing settlements in the west bank and creating facts on the ground which they need to incorporate into the state.

This is largely due to the policy of unrestricted jewish immigration from all parts of the diaspora across the world (except parts of Africa). If you have a Jewish mother whether Russian, American or European, you appear to have a right to settle in greater Israel.
 
B&W said:
First you compared to world war 2 by mentioNing bombing of axis cities then you play it down by saying The allies weren't in danger?
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if you read it again, the first three cities I mentioned are in China and the UK. I did not actually say the Allies were not in danger. I said they might have lost the war but were not in danger of destruction i.e. the Nazis were not calling for ALL Americans/British/Antipodeans to be driven out or killed if they had been defeated which is what Hamas have stated they will do - to Jews in general and not just Zionists.

I still stand by my post, in 1941 the Germans were victorious in Europe and had Moscow in there scopes.

A very real threat to the allied nations, nothing like the Palestinian threat to Israel.

Hence the allies using WMD and carpet bombing.
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You can stand by your post, next to it or even below it. Dresden, Osaka, Kobe, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki all happened in 1945 when Germany and Japan were on the ropes militarily. The war was taken to the civilian populations of those countries when the destruction of the British Empire and the USA was not even a remote possibility. The reason they did it was to suppress civilians in the Axis countries and destroy as much materiel as possibly to SWIFTLY end the war and reduce the casualties of ALLIED soldiers and civilians.



Yes Israel can be harsher then it is but they are a nation and politically they can not afford too.
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So, we agree that Israel could be harsher and chooses not to. How about Hamas? Would you agree that they can be as harsh as they want because as a non-state they lose nothing - every time Israel retaliates and Gazan civilians are (invariably) killed in the process, Hamas use this a political and military gain.

Not a fan of Hamas I think they are partially to blame for the start of this but the repercussions of Israel's attacks are large civilian casualties and despite this they continue the same tactics knoWing it can not eliminate all the tunnels this way.
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Israel know they cannot eliminate all the tunnels this way...does it mean they should stop trying? Hamas know that until they negotiate in good faith and recognise Israel's right to exist, stop firing rockets into Israel and continue to target civilians (which is an actual war crime btw) they wont achieve much. However, they will continue trying to follow the same old routine.

Let me throw out an idea here. After Israel won the Sinai from Egypt in 1967, when Anwar Sadat wanted the Sinai back, he decided post the defeat in the 1973 Yom Kippur War that he would give diplomacy a real go. Since then, both nations have enjoyed bilateral peace and economic progress.

What about when King Hussein signed a peace treaty in 1994 with Israel. Same result. I put it to you that if Hamas and Fatah would negotiate as above with Israel, they could achieve better results than the current state of affairs.
 
Castiel said:
Being as Craterloads mentions the need for a Two State Solution in the same paragraph it would be somewhat difficult to assume he meant anything other than the Palestinian Territories or implies the destruction or dismantlement of Israel. It is a leap to think he was referring to the British Mandate of Palestine and still recognise his reference to The Two State Solution as being a way forward.
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I did mention Hamas' position which has nothing to do with a two state solution.


Castiel said:
As I said, it difficult to argue with that statement and remain impartial. Thank you for illustrating that. ;)
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The fact that you mentioned impartial whilst quoting a Craterloads post made me assume you were being ironic...

Unless of course by impartial you actually mean "Totally supports Palestine whilst thinking Israel are spawn of the devil"?
 
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