Soldato
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Just because you believe in something doesn't make it the objective truth.
Do you believe in evolution ?
- Thread starter kaka4200
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So basically we end up with two theories for life on Earth, one is that an invisible superbeing created the vast universe & two is that life evolved over billions of years or was possibly seeded from another planet.
Evidence for creation is simply non existant, no evidence whatsoever that God or Jesus exists other than a book called 'the bible' A book of ancient writings sorted out & contrived by the Vatican through the past 2 thousand years to suit their doctrine & spread fear into the population. This is the space age not the dark age & yet civilised & so called intelligent people still flock in their millions to worship a god
There is simply no written evidence that Jesus ever existed, not one of the gospels gives an eye witness account because they were written decades after he supposedly lived & died. Those same gospels that give entirely different accounts of the same subject I might add & which continues throughout the bible.
Take the dead sea scrolls, written around the time he supposedly lived, there are around 800 scrolls & thousands of fragments & yet no mention of Christianity or Jesus or his followers.
Look on a religious website & see things such as 'Extraordinary Evidence About Jesus in the Dead Sea Scrolls' this is a total fabrication, seeing things that aren't there based on deliberate false translation by a now discredited man called Allegro who's reputation was destroyed and he had to resign from his academic position. The only Extraordinary thing About Jesus in the Dead Sea Scrolls is that he is not mentioned
I'll have to disagree with you on these points. I've already covered why I don't believe that belief in the Bible and belief in evolution (or seeding for that matter) are mutually exclusive.
However, it's more relevant to point out that - rather like the sciences - the fields of biblical studies and history are both subject to a peer reviewed process not unlike 'the scientific method'.
It is simply not demonstrable that there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus available.
Firstly I appreciate that you will probably want to ignore Christian sources due to perceived bias so I'll start with a non-Christian one. Professor James Crossley is with the biblical studies department at the university of Sheffield. AFAIK he is an agnostic historian that rejects the supernatural claims within the bible. Nevertheless his research indicates a date in the 30s to 40s AD for Mark's gospel. This is still controversial but is a point actively being argued over by academics.
Research page here: http://www.shef.ac.uk/biblicalstudies/people/crossley
Book on relevant subject here: http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Date_of_Mark_s_Gospel.html?id=dghH_pm_yzQC
The field of research into the historicity of the Gospels was shaken up a little a few years ago by the arguments presented by Richard Bauckham (who is, admittely, a Christian but well regarded in the field of Biblical Studies) in his book "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses". His book presents evidence for evidence of eyewitness testimony in all the Gospels.
The book is here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Eyewitnesses-Gospels-Eyewitness-Testimony/dp/0802863906 .
The book has admittedly been controversial (especially among form critics who were the dominant academic school of thought regarding the gospels until recently) but argues, mainly from literary convention, where the source eyewitnesses are identified in all the four gospels.
As an example of how this has been received by the academic community, you can hear a (long) interview with both the author and James Crossley here. Crossley indicates that he agrees with many of the author's conclusions but (as usual) draws the line, as a historian, at Bauckham's conclusions regarding the reliability of eyewitness testimony regarding miraculous events.
Now moving on to more primary sources - there are the gospels themselves. Ancient Christian secondary sources explicitly indicate that Mark and Luke were not written by eyewitnesses but those who recorded the testimony of eyewitnesses. Only John's gospel claims to contain content written directly by an eyewitness. Matthew's Gospel is more ambiguous.
Irenaeus of Lyon (lived 120-200 AD) for example wrote the following in his book "Against Heresies".
Some of Bauckham's argument from historical sources rest a lot on Papias of Hierapolis, a Christian bishop writing around 90-120AD regarding his preference for the 'living testimony' of those who knew Jesus and his apostles to the written form.
Regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's hardly surprising that they contain little mention Jesus when they are mostly dated to the early first century or much earlier (at least according to wikipedia) - a time when there were a few thousand Christians at the most. The Essenes (if indeed they were responsible for the Dead Sea Scrolls) were a somewhat insular community.
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What's happened to Theophany??
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Caporegime
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He got perma'd but I'm not sure what Xordium is referencing - I haven't changed my sigs in months.
Soldato
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No doubt that a long time ago Richard Dawkins realised that a person will not change their mind through rational argument if they have arrived at their conclusion irrationally. So he figures if i keep this up i'll sell more books and get more money etc.
What excuse do the rest of you have?
What excuse do the rest of you have?
Think it was the straw that broke the camel's back. A mod posted to stop making threads about 'tanks' and he did before he spotted the thread. Was a shame I like him a lot and the forum is a worse place without him around imo. But I guess these will all get deleted as it is 'not to be spoken of' well not specifically that but such matters.
Freefaller had a "hissy fit" to quote him. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18612908&highlight=username_Theophany It was only a week ago.
What's your book about is it a murder mystery or a thriller?
He wasn't malicious, but harmless is a bit of a stretch. I hate to say it, but the quality of the forums is markedly higher in his absence.
Aah, I can tell you've done a lot of research on this subject.
There are far worse than Theophany cruising about these forums. And this is GD, quality is not required....
There are far worse than Theophany cruising about these forums. And this is GD, quality is not required....
And then after my post I see this. Theophany was mildy amusing (to me), shame he's been perma'd!
Lol you could say that for most of us though - yourself excluded of course!
There are far worse than Theophany cruising about these forums. And this is GD, quality is not required....
In the real world, people that continually talk about themselves are grating. Theophany demonstrated an increasing sense of perpetuating self-promotion, as if he thought of himself as some sort of meme. Even his location became 'look at me I've been banned'. Then when unbanned he'd post 'look at me I've now been unbanned'.
Just, enough.
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