ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

Amnesia said:
I wouldnt call it rational......you dont expect everyone from the town of Lee Rigbys killers to apologise for the killers actions yet you expect all the muslims in Britain to be apologising for terrorists actions thousands of miles away.
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What town were they from and do they all support the killers?

I didn't say apologise, I said show a strength of that the Muslim world won't support and will actually stand against ISIS, Bokoharam, the taliban, al quaeda etc

These people have the freedom to do so as they are sheltered by Britain yet they do not. The locals in Afghanistan struggle to stand vup alone to the taliban as they will get beheaded or whatever.
 
Amnesia said:
I wouldnt call it rational......you dont expect everyone from the town of Lee Rigbys killers to apologise for the killers actions yet you expect all the muslims in Britain to be apologising for terrorists actions thousands of miles away.
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Not apologise, no. We don't apologise for the things the British Empire did either.

But the moderates should speak out with one voice to condemn ISIS. To condemn the British muslims who go out to join with ISIS.

Instead in this thread and others efforts are made to defend the actions of ISIS. Comments like "They aren't doing anything worse than you did in the days of Empire."

Do you not see the difference? Where they should be speaking with one voice to condemn radical Islam, we see instead many ISIS apologists who do not want to speak out against them. They would rather turn the debate around and make us look like the bad guys, or ask us to take a share of the blame.
 
Amnesia said:
I wouldnt call it rational......you dont expect everyone from the town of Lee Rigbys killers to apologise for the killers actions yet you expect all the muslims in Britain to be apologising for terrorists actions thousands of miles away.
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What?! Why would Romford have to apologies for Michael Adebowale actions? They have no common ground apart from they live in Romford?

What he is saying is that Muslims should speak out against the actions of ISIS, who do what they do under a Islamic banner.

edit. Plus if you ask anyone in Romford, I can guarantee if you brought Michael Adebowale and his actions up, you would make their blood boil.

If I went on a murderous rampage under the name of Christianity, world leaders, the pope, masses of people would speak against my actions and condemn me, and something would be done to stop me, instantly. People of the same faith. It's appears there is a very tiny Muslim voice speaking out against ISIS.
 
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The Running Man said:
What town were they from and do they all support the killers?

I didn't say apologise, I said show a strength of that the Muslim world won't support and will actually stand against ISIS, Bokoharam, the taliban, al quaeda etc

These people have the freedom to do so as they are sheltered by Britain yet they do not. The locals in Afghanistan struggle to stand vup alone to the taliban as they will get beheaded or whatever.
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You want the world of muslims to unite and all share the same feelings and thoughts ?
Do you expect that from all non muslims ?

and you claimed to be rational....lol
 
balky12 said:
What?! Why would Romford have to apologies for Michael Adebowale actions? They have no common ground apart from they live in Romford?

What he is saying is that Muslims should speak out against the actions of ISIS, who do what they do under a Islamic banner.
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the guys in Romford may have seen adebowale, we know they lived near him. they will share a similar postcode for sure.
went to the same supermarkets, cinemas, supported the same football team. this list goes on.

thats closer than JUST religion title or skin colour.


who cares what banner they do what under....you make it sound like they got approval from elected muslim leaders worldwide.
 
balky12 said:
If I went on a murderous rampage under the name of Christianity, world leaders, the pope, masses of people would speak against my actions and condemn me, and something would be done to stop me, instantly.
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Don't believe you....

now what
 
Amnesia said:
You want the world of muslims to unite and all share the same feelings and thoughts ?
Do you expect that from all non muslims ?

and you claimed to be rational....lol
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How do you feel about an Islamic state? Sharia law, etc?

I imagine a great number of muslims in this country feel some degree of conflict within themselves. Between western life and Islamic life. They are not really in alignment are they?
 
Amnesia said:
Don't believe you....

now what
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Why wouldn't you?! Do you even read the news?

When Christian/ Catholic vicars were abusing children left right and center in numerous circumstances (which would indicate a problem within these religions/ teachings) the Pope spoke out, Bishops spoke out, our Prime Minister spoke out. Many people were mortified. All saying this is not a true representation of Christians / Catholics, actions were taken.

All we are saying with regard to ISIS is the only people that seem to be speaking out about their actions and doing something are the West. We instantly get called Islamaphobes/ racist. Earlier it was mentioned the Iraqi army out number ISIS 20:1. Well go to war on them if you disagree. ME leaders should be shouting from the rooftops and taking action. But we are not seeing it. Instead it's the West that picks up the dirty work, and we get vilified for making a stand.

Forget religion for one second. What ISIS is doing is plain wrong. Forcing people out of towns and villages and murdering them. Taking land that is not theirs to take. They need and should be stopped.

You would have thought that people from their own religion would be first in line to stop these atrocities to keep the image of their religion form being tarnished... Unless they sympathies with them
 
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balky12 said:
Why wouldn't you?! Do you even read the news?

When Christian/ Catholic vicars were abusing children left right and center in numerous circumstances (which would indicate a problem within these religions/ teachings) the Pope spoke out, Bishops spoke out, our Prime Minister spoke out. Many people were mortified. All saying this is not a true representation of Christians / Catholics.
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Are you sure... I heard it was swept under the carpet for decades?
 
FoxEye said:
I imagine a great number of muslims in this country feel some degree of conflict within themselves. Between western life and Islamic life. They are not really in alignment are they?
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So? Same could be said about Christians, Jews, Hindus, Vegetarians, Non alcohol drinkers etc etc
 
balky12 said:
Why wouldn't you?! Do you even read the news?

When Christian/ Catholic vicars were abusing children left right and center in numerous circumstances (which would indicate a problem within these religions/ teachings) the Pope spoke out, Bishops spoke out, our Prime Minister spoke out. Many people were mortified. All saying this is not a true representation of Christians / Catholics, actions were taken.

All we are saying with regard to ISIS is the only people that seem to be speaking out about their actions and doing something are the West. We instantly get called Islamaphobes/ racist. Earlier it was mentioned the Iraqi army out number ISIS 20:1. Well go to war on them if you disagree. ME leaders should be shouting from the rooftops and taking action. But we are not seeing it. Instead it's the West that picks up the dirty work, and we get vilified for making a stand.

Forget religion for one second. What ISIS is doing is plain wrong. Forcing people out of towns and villages and murdering them. Taking land that is not theirs to take. They need and should be stopped.

You would have thought that people from their own religion would be first in line to stop these atrocities to keep the image of their religion form being tarnished...
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That would be why the Vatican still won't release records to actually convict the perpetrators.
 
Saudi Arabia, Qatar along with Kuwait and Turkey have provided 1.2 BILLION dollars to fund ISIS. Most of it though from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. A further estimated 800 million in funds has come from pillaging as ISIS runs rampant across large swathes of the middle east.

What are the west doing about this ? Nothing, because Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are gold mines to the West and the West doesn't want to upset it's bankers.

I think this situation is disgusting. Just like 9/11, where 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi and funded by Al Qaeda who in turn got most of their money from Saudi Arabia. What did the west do then ? Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. History repeating ?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/08/374537/americas-biggest-allies-funding-isis/
 
oh and a question - who thinks Syria should have carried on using chemical weapons against ISIS? and would it have stopped them before now?
 
Sliver said:
Saudi Arabia, Qatar along with Kuwait and Turkey have provided 1.2 BILLION dollars to fund ISIS. Most of it though from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. A further estimated 800 million in funds has come from pillaging as ISIS runs rampant across large swathes of the middle east.

What are the west doing about this ? Nothing, because Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are gold mines to the West and the West doesn't want to upset it's bankers.

I think this situation is disgusting. Just like 9/11, where 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi and funded by Al Qaeda who in turn got most of their money from Saudi Arabia. What did the west do then ? Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. History repeating ?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/08/374537/americas-biggest-allies-funding-isis/
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we probably sell them weapons ....
 
balky12 said:
All we are saying with regard to ISIS is the only people that seem to be speaking out about their actions and doing something are the West. We instantly get called Islamaphobes/ racist. Earlier it was mentioned the Iraqi army out number ISIS 20:1. Well go to war on them if you disagree. ME leaders should be shouting from the rooftops and taking action. But we are not seeing it. Instead it's the West that picks up the dirty work, and we get vilified for making a stand.
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You speak as if middle eastern countries are capable of action.....

The west picks up the dirty work usually because they create the mess in the first place, ahem Iraq.

Forget religion for one second. What ISIS is doing is plain wrong. Forcing people out of towns and villages and murdering them. Taking land that is not theirs to take. They need and should be stopped.
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You are arguing with yourself, I think you will find not many who disagree. I think you will also discover many are sceptical about the wests claims of murder and taking land that is not theirs given our support of Israel.... Not to mentions the hundreds of thousands butchered by the west in illegal wars.

You would have thought that people from their own religion would be first in line to stop these atrocities to keep the image of their religion form being tarnished... Unless they sympathies with them
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This doesn't make sense, comes across as a false dichotomy.
 
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