Ashya King

Xordium said:
The medical team should be making medical decisions. However, the care of a child is more than just medical decisions. That is why they adopt the partnership model of care. Essentially the goal is to support the family care for their child rather than subvert that natural responsibility. Where possible the family should be providing all care and trained to do so. That appears to be case here does it not judging by the parents competency.

There is also a very good argument that parents will read more and be motivated more to finding new treatment options.
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Religious beliefs should never be used to justify refusal of medical treatment. Clearly in this case that wasn't what happened, as has been pointed out to me.
 
Xordium said:
Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with blood donated from other people. That's about it - they will consent to blood being infused from the person undergoing the treatment so it is generally a non-issue. And tbh I never had the situation where blood was not given anyway - when push came to shove it was always a case of don't ask don't tell.
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Not true of all JWs, I've looked after some who are against autologous transfusion.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
They have no treatment options (curative) avilable, the two options presented to the parents were second opinion elsewhere, or help with fundraising for treatment abroad.
Medical team had done their things.
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Still begs the question - they were offered help with arranging treatment abroad... they are claiming now that they intended to do that - why didn't they just arrange that openly instead of sneaking the kid out of the hospital and sparking the manhunt.
 
seems like just a break down in communicaiton between the hospital and the parents

the hospital were just worried about the day to day care of the kid while not in the hosptial (unaware of any precautions the parents actually had taken)

the parents were just in spain to sell a flat the dad owned to fund the treatment abroad
im guessing the parents didnt "kidnap" more leave without bothing to tell anyone
 
Minstadave said:
Not true of all JWs, I've looked after some who are against autologous transfusion.
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They will all refuse whole blood transfusions from other people.

Beyond that it's down to the individual. Blood fractions, and having your own blood taken and stored, is a matter of conscience, based on their own faith and understanding of scripture. Therefore, some will and some won't, as you said.

Anyway, how come Spain has a better level of capability than we do? The procedure mentioned will be available in the UK in 2018 - in London and Manchester only :confused:

I though Spain was less advanced than we were... guess not :p
 
gettothechopper said:
seems like just a break down in communicaiton between the hospital and the parents

the hospital were just worried about the day to day care of the kid while not in the hosptial (unaware of any precautions the parents actually had taken)

the parents were just in spain to sell a flat the dad owned to fund the treatment abroad
im guessing the parents didnt "kidnap" more leave without bothing to tell anyone
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It's more than that... they deliberately didn't tell anyone and sneaked him out. It wasn't just some absent minded mistake, it was carefully planned by them and obviously caused some concern as medical staff then had no idea where this sick child was or what precautions had been taken.

They don't require the presence of a child in order to sell a flat.
 
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dowie said:
It's more than that... they deliberately didn't tell anyone and sneaked him out. It wasn't just some absent minded mistake, it was carefully planned by them and obviously caused some concern as medical staff then had no idea where this sick child was or what precautions had been taken.

They don't require the presence of a child in order to sell a flat.
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No, but they might wish to spend as much time together as a family, with their dying child?
I am not saying what they did it right, nor my course of action would have been the same, but told your five year old is dying, and medically there is little that can be done, if you can care for all his immediate needs, why waste time in a hospital, and why are they answerable to the police or the media?

I am still interested to see if they say no to automatic extradition, will we waste taxpayer expenses persuing a child neglect charge, despite no evidence of this.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
No, but they might wish to spend as much time together as a family, with their dying child?
I am not saying what they did it right, nor my course of action would have been the same, but told your five year old is dying, and medically there is little that can be done, if you can care for all his immediate needs, why waste time in a hospital, and why are they answerable to the police or the media?
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Its hardly wasting time - that's where the best care was available for him at the time - if he didn't need to be there he'd have been discharged and they'd have been able to take him home. As it stands he's in a Spanish hospital... for good reason. If they wanted to seek treatment abroad they were able to do that too - what they actually did, sneaking off with him - did carry some risk and made no sense at all.
 
It's good to see that Hampshire Police had Aysha's best interests at heart when they issued and International Arrest Warrant for the parents, who are now being held in a Madrid courthouse cell block while Aysha is ... alone.
 
From what I read they weren't refused the treatment due to cost but because in the opinion of the medical team the treatment would not be effective. As others have stated they were given the option of getting a second opinion and they were offered help in sourcing the treatment abroad if they wanted to go ahead anyway.
 
Minstadave said:
Not true of all JWs, I've looked after some who are against autologous transfusion.
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Paeds though - parents always tended to have no problems I found. I guess it is different though if they are adults making the decision for themselves. There will always be some though...

String said:
Religious beliefs should never be used to justify refusal of medical treatment.
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Actually its medical practitioners not going down that route in the main. Medical ethics revolves around doing no harm as well as good. From a certain viewpoint there is no point saving someone for them to ostracised from their community and placed into care which we know is far from adequate. This issue is not as black and white as people like to make out.

Ideally nothing should be used to justify refusal of medical treatment from either side however how much is refused by the state due to finance.


Edit: really what has happened down here is breakdown in trust and communication and it's not the first time this has happened at Southampton in recent times. Both the parents and the hospital are at fault for that. It is understandable that desperate parents will go to any measure for their kids. It's not so understandable that the risk was not highlighted here and that procedures including legal were not in place.
 
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Xordium said:
Ideally nothing should be used to justify refusal of medical treatment from either side however how much is refused by the state due to finance.
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I agree in principal, however finance is an acceptable factor. You can't expect a hospital to blow the entire budget on one ward or area.
 
When this first happened last week we were told by the press, police and hospital that the child was facing imminent death, would starve as the feeding machine wasn't designed to run off batteries and the parents couldn't charge it. All of which turned out to be bs. The parents had all the equipment and the hospital the child is at has moved him to non-urgent care.

The press then tried to include the parents religion in the witchhunt without any indication that it played a part.

According to the parents the hospital wouldn't listen and threatened legal action if they pursued other care which would be a hell of a concern if true.

By yesterday the attitude of the press and police was softening greatly as they started to realise how stupid they were starting to look.
 
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