Ashya King

Minstadave · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:03

Hikari Kisugi said:
Hang on, are the hospital now saying they offered this?
Maybe I have missed this all along.

They weren't refusing treatment, just not the treatment the dad wanted.

I don't think any detailed treatment options are publicly available (rightly so) but looking at the dad's youtube video the child was on chemotherapy and radiotherapy had been offered but dad had been on google and proton beam therapy was what he wanted.

Burnsy2023 · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:05

scorza said:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...-remanded-custody-judge-considers-extradition

Parents remanded in custody The Spanish justice almost makes ours look competent.

Of course they'll be remanded in custody. They're a flight risk, that much has already been proven.

Glaucus · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:05

Hikari Kisugi said:
Hang on, are the hospital now saying they offered this?
Maybe I have missed this all along.

They offered some sort of treatment, as the dad said it would destroy everything between his ears, rather than the more target proton beam.
Dad obviously didn't arrange other treatment, otherwise NHS would have released the kid.

scorza · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:07

Burnsy2023 said:
Of course they'll be remanded in custody. They're a flight risk, that much has already been proven.

Nothing like a bit of compassion in cases like these is there?

Burnsy2023 · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:08

scorza said:
Nothing like a bit of compassion in cases like these is there?

What is the judge supposed to do then?

Glaucus · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:09

scorza said:
Nothing like a bit of compassion in cases like these is there?

There shouldn't be in this case, from what we've been told, if they had been caught on route to another hospital, with paperwork or the hospital verifying they were on their way, all for lots of compassion, but that isn't what it looks like, they are a risk to the child and with their stance remain a risk.

So what have compassion? And they do another runner? All the time the kid isn't getting treatment they need.

The Geezer · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:10

Burnsy2023 said:
It could be negligence too as well as poor communication. That's the point of the actions that Hampshire Constabulary have taken.

dowie said:
No there was some neglect too... if they wanted to seek treatment abroad they could have done so - they didn't need to sneak the child out. If the child isn't fit to be discharged then I don't think the preferred/recommended mode of transport would be to stick the kid in the parents car either.

FoxEye said:
If a parent comes to a decision which he/she believes is in the best interests of their child - but is contrary to the opinion of medical staff - is it negligence if they follow through with their decision? Assuming they don't want the child to die or be harmed.

The father in his YT video stated he wanted this targeted beam therapy rather than full on chemo for his child but it was not offered to him. I would have thought the parent is allowed to make a decision once they have the facts

scorza · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:10

Burnsy2023 said:
What is the judge supposed to do then?

Confiscate passports, require them to report to police station once a day or something. Whatever his parent's may or may not have done I can't see how it benefits Ashya to have his parents locked up while he's so seriously ill. Maybe though Hampshire Constabulary shouldn't have jumped the gun and ordered an International Arrest Warrant for them.

Cold_And_Miserable · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:13

We let illegals come here and not pay a dime for 6-figure surgical procedures on the NHS yet a family try to leave to get an expensive treatment abroad at their own cost and it suddenly becomes a problem.
No wonder the UK is doomed.

Tombstone · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:13

Its a pity that we cant just fly the family to wherever it is they need to go , to have the Proton Beam treatment. If it works, it works, everyone is a winner. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but at least its one more thing tried. Worth a shot surely?

Glaucus · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:16

PanMaster said:
We let illegals come here and not pay a dime for 6-figure surgical procedures on the NHS yet a family try to leave to get an expensive treatment abroad at their own cost and it suddenly becomes a problem.
No wonder the UK is doomed.

You can apply for partial NHS finding for proton beam therapy abroad. also it's not that the NHS don't allow it or even stump up some cash. It seems the parents, never tried to get it, other than I want my son to have it, than ran away and didn't run away to a hospital to have the treatment.

Minstadave · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:18

The Geezer said:
The father in his YT video stated he wanted this targeted beam therapy rather than full on chemo for his child but it was not offered to him. I would have thought the parent is allowed to make a decision once they have the facts

Depends if it works or not, which in this case the hospital felt it didn't.

I'm not an oncologist but I would trust the oncologist before my own internet research and I'm a paediatric doctor.

Burnsy2023 · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:26

scorza said:
Confiscate passports, require them to report to police station once a day or something.

Confiscation of passports doesn't stop them travelling across the Schengen area. They could be half way across Europe by the time Spanish authorities are aware.

scorza said:
Maybe though Hampshire Constabulary shouldn't have jumped the gun and ordered an International Arrest Warrant for them.

So how would have Hantspol located them without the European Arrest Warrant?

dowie · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:30

The Geezer said:
The father in his YT video stated he wanted this targeted beam therapy rather than full on chemo for his child but it was not offered to him. I would have thought the parent is allowed to make a decision once they have the facts

So why sneak the kid out instead of arranging treatment then? The option was there for them to seek treatment abroad... that doesn't involve sneaking a ill kid out of the hospital.

Minstadave · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:35

PanMaster said:
We let illegals come here and not pay a dime for 6-figure surgical procedures on the NHS yet a family try to leave to get an expensive treatment abroad at their own cost and it suddenly becomes a problem.
No wonder the UK is doomed.

Don't be soft in the head.

The issue isn't the cost, the issue isn't availability. The parents want an unproven treatment rather than a proven treatment regime based on what they've read online.

kedge · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:37

I wonder what the truth is?

Mr King said the couple had "pleaded" with Southampton General Hospital for Ashya to receive the treatment, but were told it would have "no benefit whatsoever".

proton beam radiotherapy

It uses charged particles instead of X-rays to deliver radiotherapy for cancer patients
The treatment allows high energy protons to be targeted directly at a tumour, reducing the dose to surrounding tissues and organs
In general, it gives fewer side-effects compared to high energy X-ray treatments
It can be used to treat spinal cord tumours, sarcomas near the spine or brain, prostate cancer, lung cancer, liver cancer and some children's cancers

Minstadave · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:40

He'd had a full resection, so what would be targeted?

He'd probably be having wide area radiotherapy and chemotherapy to reduce recurrence risk.

FoxEye · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:46

Minstadave said:
Depends if it works or not, which in this case the hospital felt it didn't.

I'm not an oncologist but I would trust the oncologist before my own internet research and I'm a paediatric doctor.

The hospital didn't say it wouldn't work. They said it would be of no benefit (quote from Mr King).

That's quite a crucial difference if the King's are prepared to finance the op themselves.

It could be like saying there's no benefit to laser eye surgery if you can wear glasses.

I think if a hospital in Spain is prepared to offer the treatment, then it would wrong of us to say "it doesn't work".

So let's see if they actually manage to get the treatment they want.

Xordium · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:47

Tombstone said:
Its a pity that we cant just fly the family to wherever it is they need to go , to have the Proton Beam treatment. If it works, it works, everyone is a winner. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but at least its one more thing tried. Worth a shot surely?

PanMaster said:
We let illegals come here and not pay a dime for 6-figure surgical procedures on the NHS yet a family try to leave to get an expensive treatment abroad at their own cost and it suddenly becomes a problem.
No wonder the UK is doomed.

The Geezer said:
The father in his YT video stated he wanted this targeted beam therapy rather than full on chemo for his child but it was not offered to him. I would have thought the parent is allowed to make a decision once they have the facts

Amazing - utterly amazing. This has now been explained three times by myself in this thread, once by Hikari Kisugi and twice by MinstaDave. And yet it hasn't sunk in or been noticed.

And then people wonder why parents can absorb the information complicated treatment modalities when they are rightly stressed and anxious.

Tombstone · 1 Sep 2014 at 16:49

Xordium said:
Amazing - utterly amazing. This has now been explained three times by myself in this thread, once by Hikari Kisugi and twice by MinstaDave. And yet it hasn't sunk in or been noticed.

And then people wonder why parents can absorb the information complicated treatment modalities when they are rightly stressed and anxious.

Im not sure how my comment is in the wrong there?

I am merely saying, surely the treatment is worth a shot? I understand that some Drs are saying it will do nothing, and maybe it will do nothing, but people, yes even Drs, have been wrong in the past. Cant see what the harm is in trying though, surely the worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't work and the best thing that can happen (even if unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely) is that it doesn't. Is there something so wrong with giving something a go?