Woman beheaded in London

[Craterloads]

So FGM isn't normal in Muslim countries?

No its an African thing, done in Christian countries too.

Apostasy?

Very rare

Sentances such as stonings,

Very rare, death sentence pretty much.

You are painting a picture of such being a norm, again a sheltered view by someone who has been reading the DM too much. Believe it or not "muslim" countries on the whole are very normal, people live normal lives, go about their days normally. Or you could believe they are raving mad lusting for blood 24/7 but I guess that would fit your bias better.

 

[Craterloads]

Apparently the perp was a recent Muslim convert. Or so someone said on a page or two back?

No the perp was not, seems a case of repeat the same ******** enough hoping some of it sticks.

 

[cheesyboy]

But the point I was making is that *everything* you know about the Nazis comes from books, or "the media" who you distrust so much.

You never spoke to a Nazi. You probably never spoke to a person who actually saw the inside of a concentration camp. Etc, etc. Same with the Romans, or the Brazillian football team.

Are you going to say that everything in the media is biased, and must be discounted as evidence? Also in history books? That the only valid way to judge islam is to talk to British muslims? How many should you talk to? One? Ten? All of them?

You are presenting a problem which you have made impossible to solve. No one can realistically talk to all muslims in this country, therefore since we are not allowed to use statistics, or anything on TV or in the papers, you are basically saying we can't judge. Period.

Because talking to just a handful of muslims (the "moderates") is not going to get you any closer to an accurate picture of islam in this country, is it?

My point wasn't that the news can't be trusted, simply that its nature means that you don't see "ordinary muslims", because that's not newsworthy.

And if you don't meet those ordinary muslims in real life, so your only experience of muslims is of the ones making the news, then you're not getting a balanced sample of information on which to base your opinion. That doesn't mean you are necessarily wrong (a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day, after all), but it makes it more difficult to be right.

And you come across as a bit of a nutter with the anti-muslim stuff. Which doesn't help the cause if you genuinely want to raise awareness of problems.

 

[SkodaMart]

Why don't the moderate muslims take a stand and say "this is NOT in our name"? That's my issue. There's the element of not betraying a fellow muslim, involved at times which goes against everything this country stands for.

That's because they are not moderate. They are the 'silent majority' and are waiting for the right time.

Either bloody conflict or gradual islamification of the UK through non-violent means.

This county is at war, wake up and smell the curry before it's too late.

 

[balky12]

No the perp was not, seems a case of repeat the same ******** enough hoping some of it sticks.

A lot of articles are starting to report it. Don't shoot the messenger dude.

 

[dowie]

And why is this thread full of Muslim talk, what has the murder of an 82 year old by a mental patient (who isn't muslim) got anything to do with the current topic?

because it seems quite likely that someone who decapitates another human being could quite likely either be suffering from mental illness or could be a Muslim

there is a prior for this - in so far as the last time a brutal beheading occurred in the UK was the result of Muslims attacking an off duty soldier - not mentally ill people, just people who'd subscribed to an extreme version of a silly belief system

apparently the attacker in this case may well be a Muslim as some people have speculated... (at least there are apparently some reports claiming that) whether he's also suffering from mental issues too is yet to be discovered and whether the killing was a result of his irrational state of mind or the irrational belief system he chose to subscribe to (or a combination of both) is yet to be established too.

But I really don't see why it would be so surprising that people would wonder if the attacker in a random beheading was a follower of the religion of peace and tolerance.

 

[thep02]

And why is this thread full of Muslim talk, what has the murder of an 82 year old by a mental patient (who isn't muslim) got anything to do with the current topic?

Agreed, I think it would be a good idea for op's to put PRI after the thread title to indicate a Possible Racist Interest element to the thread, obviously racists could still look at threads without the PRI designation in case they noted a racist aspect to the thread that the op hadn't noted.

 

[FoxEye]

And you come across as a bit of a nutter with the anti-muslim stuff.

I'm just saying what an increasing number of people think. Not just here but in Europe too.

It's not just in Iraq and Syria where muslims are fighting. In France one police officer said a while back that they were in a state of "open war" with some muslim council house estates.

In Germany just a few weeks ago some German muslims attacked a pro-Yazidi demonstration, armed with knives. The ISIS flag was flying in Tower Hamlets in London.

These are all warning signs of things to come.

 

[dowie]

Agreed, I think it would be a good idea for op's to put PRI after the thread title to indicate a Possible Racist Interest element to the thread, obviously racists could still look at threads without the PRI designation in case they noted a racist aspect to the thread that the op hadn't noted.

Where has race been mentioned?

 

[balky12]

You are painting a picture of such being a norm, again a sheltered view by someone who has been reading the DM too much. Believe it or not "muslim" countries on the whole are very normal, people live normal lives, go about their days normally. Or you could believe they are raving mad lusting for blood 24/7 but I guess that would fit your bias better.

Think this is where your ability to read fails you. I wasn't saying they are all raving mad blood lusting nuts. I was, orignally, correcting the dude who said UK Muslims make up the majority of the Muslim population.

Then I went on to say there is a difference between a typical Westernised Muslim, and the typical Muslim found in their native land. I have no problem with either or. But to say a Muslim found in the UK is an accurate representation of the majority of Muslims is inaccurate. I agree most of them probably just want to get on with their lives hassle and terrorist free, they are in no way as liberal/ tolerating / understanding as we are. But that is because they believe so strongly in their religion, and good for them. IS is where the problem is.

Islam is just behind the times, thus their backward laws, warped views, etc. They just want their moment in the lime light. It will all blow over in a hundred or so years.

 

[Craterloads]

because it seems quite likely that someone who decapitates another human being could quite likely either be suffering from mental illness or could be a Muslim

I'm sorry I didn't realise these were the only two options....

there is a prior for this - in so far as the last time a brutal beheading occurred in the UK was the result of Muslims attacking an off duty soldier - not mentally ill people, just people who'd subscribed to an extreme version of a silly belief system

Which was quite clear, not sure how it is related to this murder.

apparently the attacker in this case may well be a Muslim as some people have speculated... (at least there are apparently some reports claiming that) whether he's also suffering from mental issues too is yet to be discovered and whether the killing was a result of his irrational state of mind or the irrational belief system he chose to subscribe to (or a combination of both) is yet to be established too.

Given he was apparently attacking cats and screaming "where are the cats" I think its safe to say.

But I really don't see why it would be so surprising that people would wonder if the attacker in a random beheading was a follower of the religion of peace and tolerance.

Unfortunately playing detective is not the current topic, the current topic is more a paranoid frenzy of how "Muslims are lurking in the shadows to strike" which I was more referring to, you know the regular bigoted stuff.

 

[cheesyboy]

And you come across as a bit of a nutter with the anti-muslim stuff.

I'm just saying what an increasing number of people think. Not just here but in Europe too.

It's not just in Iraq and Syria where muslims are fighting. In France one police officer said a while back that they were in a state of "open war" with some muslim council house estates.

In Germany just a few weeks ago some German muslims attacked a pro-Yazidi demonstration, armed with knives. The ISIS flag was flying in Tower Hamlets in London.

These are all warning signs of things to come.

Yeah. ok.

And you come across as a bit of a nutter with the anti-muslim stuff.

 

[thep02]

Where has race been mentioned?

I said possible racist interest, race doesn't have to be specifically mentioned for a thread to be of interest to a racist just because they're morons doesn't mean they can't look at wider issues.

 

[Craterloads]

Think this is where your ability to read fails you. I wasn't saying they are all raving mad blood lusting nuts. I was, orignally, correcting the dude who said UK Muslims make up the majority of the Muslim population.

Then I went on to say there is a difference between a typical Westernised Muslim, and the typical Muslim found in their native land. I have no problem with either or. IS is where the problem is.

I read perfectly fine, and as I stated that simply isn't the case. It isn't the norm.

 

[dowie]

I'm sorry I didn't realise these were the only two options....

there aren't... they are just two likely options

Which was quite clear, not sure how it is related to this murder.

It involved a beheading, an unusual event/thing to occur and something not necessarily required in order for a murder to occur but something that may occur if someone follows a particular belief system or perhaps is just a bit mental.

 

[wingman44115]

I have to agree with most of what foxeye has said.

 

[Zethor]

There is always a liberal interpretation to excuse everything.

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

 

[cheesyboy]

I was, orignally, correcting the dude who said UK Muslims make up the majority of the Muslim population.

I was actually saying that "ordinary UK Muslims" make up the majority of the UK muslim population, and are a lot like you and me. I would have to be a moron to suggest that UK muslims are the majority of the world's muslim population. You may disagree with my viewpoints, but do my posts suggest I'm that much of a moron?

 

[balky12]

I read perfectly fine, and as I stated that simply isn't the case. It isn't the norm.

So you are saying a typical Muslim in the UK and a typical Muslim in Iraq would behave in exactly the same way if exposed to the same social scenarios?

Maybe you're right and I am wrong. We do however disagree.

I just can't see Muslims who have never experienced anything other than Islam would be as tolerable/ understanding/ laid back as one who has been exposed to a Western way of life.

Nice debate anyways dude.

 

[balky12]

I was actually saying that "ordinary UK Muslims" make up the majority of the UK muslim population, and are a lot like you and me. I would have to be a moron to suggest that UK muslims are the majority of the world's muslim population. You may disagree with my viewpoints, but do my posts suggest I'm that much of a moron?

Nah, that's what stumped me at first.

But you I agree. 99% of UK Muslims are great, and set great examples of Islam / Muslims.