Alan Henning killed.

OldCoals said:
They think they are followers of Islam though.
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Well they are Muslims/followers of Islam... frankly anyone who believes there is no other god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger is a Muslim.

There are plenty of different interpretations of Islam... perhaps most academic interpretations in the UK are very allegorical and 'Islam' as far as these interpretations are concerned is moderate/peaceful etc.. that's fine, its also fine that some Muslims will perhaps view Islam as pure and human interpretations as flawed... believe that their particular beliefs/interpretations are closest and others that differ from their beliefs/interpretations are following a corrupted version. These extremists are not 'proper Muslims' as a Muslim would never do X etc.. It's all pointless, they are Muslims and if they follow a more literal fundamentalist interpretation (not too hard to do given the violence present in the Koran, the old testament etc.. )they likely think more moderate Muslims aren't following true Islam. Islamic fundamentalist views aren't exactly rare and so called 'extreme' views are really not often extreme but fairly normal as far as significant portions Muslims across the globe are concerned.
 
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Castiel said:
They are not particularly liberal views, they are rational, objective views.
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Liberal, rational, objective, or whatever, the point still stands imo.

Osprey said:
Freefaller are we now suspending individuals who don't agree with your liberal views? Just interested because you remarked that his comment was pathetic, but when he said the same about you he ended up suspended. Doesn't seem particularly fair to me.
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That was my thought when reading down the replies. I suppose Freefaller's response would be that the bloke said 'you're pathetic' whereas Freefaller only called his reply pathetic.

Still, unfortunate that a comment like 'you're pathetic if...' justifies a suspension. Seems slightly petty and I thought FF had thicker skin than that.
 
Castiel said:
They are not particularly liberal views, they are rational, objective views.
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Yes just like the thousands of Pakistani men who have been found to be abusing children, supplying them with drugs and alcohol.

They just happen to be Muslim.
 
Castiel said:
They do not want the restoration of a lost caliphate, they want to create a claiphate all of their own. The kind of Caliphate they wish to create has very little in common with Caliphates of the past, particularly the Ottomans toward the end of their reign before the abolition in the early 20th century.
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Here's my second attempt. My first attempt was deleted by Freefaller because I implied you were being obvious. Bit confused as to how that is a violation of forum rules, but anyway, lets move on.

I think your post is pointing out something that didn't need pointing out because most of the people reading the thread know what's been said and understand context. Yes, CONTEXT. Hence, it's obvious !

Hopefully, you can read this Castiel, without it being deleted.

Also, you are still on my ignore list. :D
 
It wasn't obvious though, how many here know that deep kind of knowledge about Islam, most like me wouldn't even know what the caliphate is or means.
 
SkodaMart said:
Yes just like the thousands of Pakistani men who have been found to be abusing children, supplying them with drugs and alcohol.

They just happen to be Muslim.
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Are you equating Freefallers views with those held by a criminal gang? If not, then I don't see the relevance.
 
Amnesia said:
It wasn't obvious though, how many here know that deep kind of knowledge about Islam, most like me wouldn't even know what the caliphate is or means.
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Google is your friend. If you don't understand something someone says, look it up, then come back and join in. ;)
 
Freefaller said:
I don't disagree. You're entirely right they are Muslim and they are killing in the name of Islam. I'm not forgiving or diluting the abhorrent nature of what they are doing - I think it's tragic, awful and I would not and am not defending anything they're doing. I want them tried and stopped like everyone else.

I am just making it clear that Muslim bashing is not on, and that it is unfair to typecast because of a religion.
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Fair enough.
 
SkodaMart said:
Yes just like the thousands of Pakistani men who have been found to be abusing children, supplying them with drugs and alcohol.

They just happen to be Muslim.
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Does their stated religion make a difference to the crime of abusing children i.e. is it something that is either wholly or largely exclusive to the religion? I'd have to argue not - child abusers (almost certainly) exist in every belief system (and for that matter I'd give good odds they exist among those who have no faith as well) so as far as a defining element of a description goes it's not particularly helpful.

You can obviously note it as part of any description if it's factually correct but in terms of identifying others who might be preying on children it seems a bit useless as it's very much a minority who do these acts. That's one good reason why judging a whole religion based on the action of a few is seldom a sensible idea.
 
Castiel said:
Are you equating Freefallers views with those held by a criminal gang? If not, then I don't see the relevance.
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Are you trolling and trouble stirring?

I was implying that British Muslims track record has been far from perfect recently.

Our liberalist views are what has allowed this Jihadist ideology to thrive in this country.
 
SkodaMart said:
Yes just like the thousands of Pakistani men who have been found to be abusing children, supplying them with drugs and alcohol.

They just happen to be Muslim.
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And just happen to be Pakistani and just happen to be men, just happen to be criminals.
Why are you implying that their supposed faith is the main factor in the crime.
 
Amnesia said:
don't need to when Castiel can just correct your mistake for you :p
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What mistake ? I never made one. :confused:

He just used a strawman on me.

A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
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You made a great audience though. ;)
 
semi-pro waster said:
Does their stated religion make a difference to the crime of abusing children
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could you argue that the disproportionately high representation of that religion or culture around that religion in these crimes indicates that maybe there's something in being raised and living in that environment that causes people to have the view that this is acceptable.


just like now days we would think that smashing up a shop because it's owned by a jew would be abhorrent but at the time of Nazi Germany it became socially acceptable because of the culture of the time.


It's pretty clear that in many islamic or Asian populations that women and white/non Muslims are of a considerably lower value than Muslim men.
 
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