Benefits a magnet to migrants.

[xbenjiiman]

Oh lawd

all of them 100%

Brilliant

Classic DM

 

[cheesyboy]

Classic DM

You changed the pic from the UKIP one. Why not both?

 

[Caged]

Have we worked out if people are coming here to be bone idle and claim thousands of pounds a day in benefits whilst sponging off the NHS, or if they are fit young males coming here to work? I need to know what to be angry at.

 

[Efour]

Going to Rochester and Strood in the next couple of weekends to do exactly that.

Good for you! For that you get my respect (but none for the actual subject )

 

[Xordium]

I need to know what to be angry at.

I think you should be angry that polarised opinions and the presumption that anyone who is not for your polarised view is automatically at the other end of the spectrum are stifling debate on the subject and propagating the entrenchment of views thereby stopping anyone facilitating solutions to real problems that do need addressing.

 

[robgmun]

Except they aren't spending it in that country, so it's nothing. Of course as mentioned there are the indirect benefits.

Though don't you have to be in the country for certain period before you can even claim?

The point is they don't know that! Labour went out everywhere trying to encourage everyone to come in. Now all the rules have changed but the word is not going out.

Part of the reason that people will want to come to the UK is that they already speak the langunage. It's the colonial past coming back to bite us. In fact if Britain wasn't medalling in Africa and the middle east creating false nation states there probably wouldn't be as many asylum seakers any way. Besides from the French doing it too, and they have their own problems with immigrants.

That's just conjuncture and i'm not so sure that's right

 

[D.P.]

If they're willing to die to get into the UK, how many do you reckon are willing to kill?

Perhaps zero?

 

[anything I don't mind]

Dear god it hurts to read this thread. Personal offense ahoy.

Now lets do The British thing which all proud British people with British heritage and British honour do. Blame the immigrants. *Picard facepalm*

Most English families are in fact foreigners if you look back far enough. Either from Nordish lands, Indian descent (1960s especially) or a mixture of European or Celtic. We've been invaded more times than the Middle East.

There are very few true, dare I say "pureblood" English. Why would we stop the immigration process considering our history of adopting foreign culture into our own? Plus we're a very diverse country in terms of population, I don't understand how people can see that as a bad thing.

Alternatively can we agree to disagree and leaving it there. Damn, this thread is not to the usual OcUK GD standards (as bad as said standards are).

It is about excessive mass immigration. Not just immigration.

Look in the 60s when we had the influx of migrants from india and other countries, the numbers were relatively small. From 1945-1970 we had less than a million. We have currently 700000 per year at the moment.

There is also infrastructure and economic capacity considerations. After the second world war there was massive housing projects as well as the massive rebuilding of infrastructure. At that time cars were not as plentiful as well. All these factors play a part when looking at the impact of excessive mass immigration.

www.jnu.ac.in/library/IMDS_Working_Papers/IMDS_Mar_2010_WP_21_37-520001.pdf

As productive of an economy as we are, there are limits to the rate at which population can increase while retaining infrastructure and economic productivity levels. More people does not always mean more economic output, especially when we have welfare state.

We are simply not creating jobs and houses fast enough to keep up with excessive mass immigration.

 

[Third Opinion]

This makes equally miserable reading.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29805830

29,000 cases unresolved since 2007 and contact lost with 50,000 failed Asylum seekers. Sounds like soft touch to me.

These are just the cases we know about, I wonder how many have come in on fake EU identity cards or have completed the journey unnoticed?

 

[semi-pro waster]

Its not just for £36, like i said its for all the other indirect benefits.

But if you take a country like somalia for example. How far does £36 go?

£36 = 45160.47 Somali Shilling

Average salary per month is 38875.00 Somali Shilling

But getting a touch more than the monthly wages in a particular country (that you're clearly no longer in) hardly seems worth the effort when you consider the risks involved in such journeys not forgetting about the costs involved when many migrants will have either had to pay upfront for their passage or will be forced to work off the debt after arrival. No one is saying the approach is entirely logical but on first glance it seems that this should not be a primary motivator.

As has also been pointed out if they are illegal immigrants then they're not entitled to benefits. They would have to legitimise their claim by becoming asylum seekers, at which point they might become entitled to some benefits but will also be judged against the relevant criteria for remaining in the UK.

Denying that there is a problem (real or perceived) isn't the answer but nor is any approach where the outcomes haven't been thought about and demanding that all (or even most) immigration is stopped isn't a supportable option either.

mansions?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...seeker-on-benefits-given-2-million-house.html

It's an exception though, if it were a regular thing then it would hardly merit reporting. It's also partly a function of the location, a house worth over £1m in London isn't necessarily particularly exceptional.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Whether you think it is worth an effort or not is irrelevant, they are making the effort. Where dose this £36 come from anyway? Like i already said its much more than £36 that they come over for.

To them with a low standard of living as they have in their country, when they learn they can get the average monthly salary for nothing in the uk, they will come over for it and live next to a bridge and eat beans on bread every day. Still a better standard of living than they had where ever they came from or they would not have made the journey.

I don't see why there is so much effort in trying to down play effects that immigration has on welfare? There are countless stories of immigrants ending up getting big houses and getting more than £36 from welfare state. Its not an exception.

 

[thep02]

Yes, you have no idea how much that is to someone from a poor country.

Aaand they have no idea how little that is in the UK.

 

[VoG]

mansions?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...seeker-on-benefits-given-2-million-house.html

Which no longer holds true, total benefit payable, including rent allowance was capped at £26,000 last year, and is due to be reduced again after the next election, so the days of getting a "mansion" are long gone.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Well they never release any detailed immigration/welfare statistics anyway. So how would any one know what the current state is.

As far as i am aware, nothing has changed. We still have immigrants in massive houses and even if they are not mansions, they still get everything i mentioned. Free house, free education for their children, free healthcare when they need it and so on. These all cost more than £36.

We have housing shortage, we have school shortage, we have healthcare shortage. There are other factors but the 700k immigrants per year does not help.

 

[gothic_hobbit]

They will never be able to change this welfare state now, there are too many people benefiting from it.

Someone needs to tell IDS this.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Well they never release any detailed immigration/welfare statistics anyway. So how would any one know what the current state is.

As far as i am aware, nothing has changed. We still have immigrants in massive houses and even if they are not mansions, they still get everything i mentioned. Free house, free education for their children, free healthcare when they need it and so on. These all cost more than £36.

We have housing shortage, we have school shortage, we have healthcare shortage. There are other factors but the 700k immigrants per year does not help.

I think you read the Daily Mail too much.

 

[Mickie]

It amazes me we have to be told by the French what should be plainly obvious.

The theory is they come from the EU and are immediately entitled too under EU law any benefits that a UK citizen is entitled too. That means they can sign on for jobseekers, claim tax credits, join housing lists, request housing/council tax benefit. In addition they get the free health care etc (I state free as they have not paid into the UK system) and get a pension.

If they are outside the EU they can come here being confident that the UK lives in fear of violating human rights laws. Even if they fail in the asylum process the UK has a pretty appalling record of returning people home.

Then they have the world of the black economy where they can simply melt away into communities never to be seen again.

This is the price we pay for having a very generous welfare state.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I've no sympathy for illegal immigrants. If we cannot return them to their country of origin, I am sure there is some African state which will take them for cash.

Asylum seekers should be seeking asylum in the first county they reach, or else they are not asylum seekers but economic migrants.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Whether you think it is worth an effort or not is irrelevant, they are making the effort. Where dose this £36 come from anyway? Like i already said its much more than £36 that they come over for.

To them with a low standard of living as they have in their country, when they learn they can get the average monthly salary for nothing in the uk, they will come over for it and live next to a bridge and eat beans on bread every day. Still a better standard of living than they had where ever they came from or they would not have made the journey.

You're again conflating illegal immigrants (who aren't entitled to any direct governmental support by dint of them not registering for anything) with asylum seekers and other migrants. They're not the same thing.

I'm also not convinced that in all cases there isn't significant disinformation in the scenario - you tell me that it's irrelevant whether I think it's worth the effort but you don't countenance the possibility that perhaps people aren't making good decisions because the opportunities have been missold to them. And also you're discounting that the costs (and risks) from travelling are not insignificant - presumably most would like to believe that they will be better off from having made the trip but that's not necessarily motivated primarily by a fiscal improvement in their situation, it might be that they wish to be free from persecution.

I don't see why there is so much effort in trying to down play effects that immigration has on welfare? There are countless stories of immigrants ending up getting big houses and getting more than £36 from welfare state. Its not an exception.

It is an exception, that doesn't mean it's the only case where it has happened but much more simply that it is not the norm. The vast majority of immigrants do not end up in big houses worth £1m+.

Well they never release any detailed immigration/welfare statistics anyway. So how would any one know what the current state is.

As far as i am aware, nothing has changed. We still have immigrants in massive houses and even if they are not mansions, they still get everything i mentioned. Free house, free education for their children, free healthcare when they need it and so on. These all cost more than £36.

We have housing shortage, we have school shortage, we have healthcare shortage. There are other factors but the 700k immigrants per year does not help.

Out of interest where does the 700k immigrants per year come from? The ONS figures for 2013-14 state it's 560,000 immigrants with 316,000 emigrating for a net immigration figure of around 243,000. Not insignificant numbers when viewed alone but let's put that net immigration figure into context with the population of the UK being a shade over 64m (in 2013) so that equates to a rise of around 0.38% in a year.

Are you against all immigration or are you against illegal immigration primarily? In the case of illegal immigration it's bound to be rather difficult to release detailed statistics - these people are quite deliberately trying not to be tracked so you can't exactly count them up with a census, you have to make an estimate and like all estimates that means it is subject to a margin of error.

 

[SPG]

When there is enough from country A out them on a Hercules and drop them back off at home. Let the regime there escaping from deal with them. Serves them right for not trying to fix there own infested country and being a burden on the UK and the rest of europe.

I have no time or tolerance for any of these. Basically had enough.