Zoe Quinn: GamerGate must be condemned

Tunney said:
That sounds an awful lot like she didn't sleep with journalists in exchange for favourable reviews - she slept with them for personal reasons.
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for all you know she did it for favorable reviews but didnt get the review. You're making the assumption that because one wasnt published then that could be the reason for her sleeping with the guy(s). because guys have never promised women anything in return for sex, right?

james.miller said:
it does not state or even try to hint that she didnt sleep with the journos in return for favourable reviews. That has been speculation all along, of course, but the article does not dispute the speculation in any way
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I'm not saying that's the case, i'm just saying the BBC article doesnt refute that in any way.-
 
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OhEsEcks said:
I care even less about gamergate and everyone involved than I do for the bowel movement I had this morning.
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Me too I can't understand what an ex-boyfriend posting a blog about their sex life has to do with games?

Don't bother explaining i'm already bored yet it seems to pop up all over the net.

Quite fancy playing her game though Depression Craft :)
 
Clav said:
I've no idea what is going on either. What confuses me the most though is that the Quinn lady is a feminist game dev against sexism and misogyny but gets her baps out on the internet?
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This is in fact a thing.


Edit: However, regardless of the fact that many people don't even seem to know what they're arguing against on here a lot of the time when it comes to these sorts of issues... Does it not strike you as potentially the fact that a person was harassed and sent death threats is perhaps a slightly more worthy social cause than having reviewers give the correct number on a review? One is a matter of somebody's well being, and the other is that this minor convenience to you isn't perfect. Did it not at any point click in the population that perhaps they would have had more success in attacking the reviewers who were making these biased reviews rather than browbeating some indie dev who merely might have exploited the already existing lack of professional competency within the industry?
 
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james.miller said:
No it doesn't. she definitely slept with (at one of) them - the article says that. It also says that no review was published. it does not state or even try to hint that she didnt sleep with the journos in return for favourable reviews. That has been speculation all along, of course, but the article does not dispute the speculation in any way .
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So basically what you're saying is that there's no evidence that Zoe Quinn slept with journalists in exchange for favourable reviews.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Although I agree that harassment in the true sense of the word is unacceptable, I think that its clear the women at the centre of this story are profiteering from the exposure.

None of them have achieved anything of note professionally and now they are being thrust into the limelight. Furthermore, if there was a credible threat, why would they advertise it? Most guidance on these issues says DO NOT make it public.
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Sorry but Felicia Day and Brianna Wu I'd consider reasonably successful in their chosen fields. I dunno about Zoe Quinn but then, she has released her own game. Though she hasn't been dragged into GamerGate, Jade Raymond has been very successful and I can't help remember the misogynistic abuse she got from what I thought was a respected gaming website a few years ago.
 
scorza said:
So basically what you're saying is that there's no evidence that Zoe Quinn slept with journalists in exchange for favourable reviews.
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Correct, but as I previously replied to you with: 2 favourable mentions, not reviews.

Were they dating at the time of these mentions? Kotaku says they didn't date until a few months after this, but were they friends at the time... probably.

Patricia Fernandez also gave favourable mentions to friends, one of which was even her old room mate.
 
The problem is that a lot of sites dont want the controversy so simply shut down all debate and others dont help such as 4chan posting fakes news and troll posts to rial people up. Even the more reputable sites have become very polarised, neogaf for instance which in the past few years has turned from a gaming site to a feminist support group only allow a very one sided view of the argument.

My advice: Don't bother following or getting involved, the argument is a race to the bottom level.
 
scorza said:
Sorry but Felicia Day and Brianna Wu I'd consider reasonably successful in their chosen fields. I dunno about Zoe Quinn but then, she has released her own game. Though she hasn't been dragged into GamerGate, Jade Raymond has been very successful and I can't help remember the misogynistic abuse she got from what I thought was a respected gaming website a few years ago.
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Felicia Day was not harassed, she was allegedly doxxed. However the veracity of that claim is in dispute, because the information was listed on a public website. You can't really dox public information. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe GamerGate was involved and it was broadly condemned on the GG sites and forums.

Brianna Wu was is far from successful. She has made one game which pretty much tanked. What has she achieved beyond that? Nothing. She's a non-entity. She's also been several dodgy practices such as setting up sock pocket accounts on Twitter to provoke further reactions.

Jade Raymond has said that she doesn't feel the industry is sexist and hasn't really been a name tagged to the GG movement. She may have been on the receiving end of some abuse, but she's a high profile name and that comes with the turf. Plenty of high profile men are on the receiving end of abuse too.

I don't deny that sexism exists or that women may something be subject to abuse and harassment. But that is nothing special, in fact recent a recent Pew survey suggests that men are far more likely to be the subject of online harassment than women. So this idea that there is this massive campaign of harassment against women in the gaming sphere is just nonsense.

And in general there is no reason to believe GG in particular is engaging in harassment. It's a very broad based group with some of the "big names" being women.
 
Oh look it's another polarised view. I'll give you a hint OP:

a) There are ******s on the internet and Zoe is right about that

b) Zoe is also one of those ******s and so are a great number of her advocates

(and I am royally ****** off that good gaming sites eg RPS have been taken over for SJW agendas rather than about gaming - Kieron please come back John Walker is a ****)
 
Tunney said:
Utter nonsense. There's been an organised campaign of harassment.

Adam Baldwin has been one of the biggest supporters of the movement and even coined the phrase GamerGate. He hates feminists. He is not a gamer.
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Firstly, those who were involved in the IRC refute the log. They say its been edited and taken out of context. Escapist Magazine covered that.

Furthermore, GG is not a homogeneous entity and anyone can claim to be part of it. It's absolutely possible that people have attacked others under the umbrella of GG, but that is not something supported by the majority of those involved.

Finally, you need to understand that when people talk about feminism in GG, they speak of gender feminism specifically, not equity feminism. There is no broad movement to harass women, which is why GG has plenty of women and feminists in the ranks. Eg. Christina Hoff Sommers, who herself is critical of gender feminism.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Finally, you need to understand that when people talk about feminism in GG, they speak of gender feminism specifically, not equity feminism. There is no broad movement to harass women, which is why GG has plenty of women and feminists in the ranks. Eg. Christina Hoff Sommers, who herself is critical of gender feminism.
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Again, another non-gamer and right-wing anti-feminist.

But this is about ethics in games journalism, right?
 
Lightnix said:
This is in fact a thing.
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Weren't feminists burning their bras in the 60s how can they claim this is an 80s thing?

Feminists were wearing mini skirts and no bra in 69 as my dad will attest to.

The bra in the 60s was equivalent to the hijab in the 00s most men were delighted to see it go.

We are all human and 10% of humans have a below average IQ.
 
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