How's it going in my country?
Will UKIP win its first seat in parliament tonight?
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
How's it going in my country?
I didn't realise border security was contracted out to private firms
. What is run by the government these days? 
.No!
your my local UKIP propaganda spokes person here. Get to work on convincing me with your finest jingoistic, gerrymandering nationalism that you can sum up from the deepest depths of your patriotic vitriol
Nah Farage is an ex banker, and set up a trust in the Isle of Man for tax reasons, so don't expect him to fight this one.
Shame really.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Aug 2010
- Posts
- 3,114
Did you even read the article ? With the race to the bottom between the Tories and UKIP they seem to be losing their minds on anything originating out of Europe.
You are aware the Arrest Warrant works both ways ?
I didn't realise border security was contracted out to private firms
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26665039
^ the more you trust a load of private security people and have limited oversight ( hmm, funny this seems a lot like the internet privacy leaks situation ) the more standards will drop to the lowest common denominator. I can tell you the training is absolutely minimal and the types of people .. my god. I think 3rd party oversight and regulation always needs to be looking into any body with substantial power over its citizenry
there is almost nothing that isn't. You cant really legally record in half of London as its corporate owned land just like in the US (yet look at how much your being recorded) you would be amazed many rights are being fragilely held together because we are in the EU, if we leave then you can guess the rest
.. unless ukip turn out to be nice guys/girls .. i just don't know but then what about the next party ?
Last edited:
Mr Farage was on LBC this morning and when asked about the figures indicating EU migrants being the only group that actually pays, rather than costs the country to the tune of 22bn, he dived into dismissal solely blaming EU migrants for "wage compression" and "lowered standard of living". This is very interesting tactic, but a deadly flawed one for his argument in the future, because:
a) he won't be able to find any proof that standard of living was higher in the past across period covered by the study, unless he wants to suggest sub prime credit fuelled mass spending of "new labour" 90ies was better than new EU migrants easing recovery of recession in late 2000's.
b) "wage compression" argument is inherently flawed and is the easiest to dismantle, because it presumes that higher wage always comes from pockets of corporations and not your own. So, if Janek Kowalski would't steal Starbucks barista job from Rob of Gmuns, he would now enjoy his mythical non-compressed higher wages, the coffee price would remain on the same level and the difference between two would be covered by money falling from heaven. A single builders/painter wage would add to "higher standard of living across the nation" more than every customer of foreign builder/painter across the same time benefiting from lower price of services rendered. You can see where it leads.
a) he won't be able to find any proof that standard of living was higher in the past across period covered by the study, unless he wants to suggest sub prime credit fuelled mass spending of "new labour" 90ies was better than new EU migrants easing recovery of recession in late 2000's.
b) "wage compression" argument is inherently flawed and is the easiest to dismantle, because it presumes that higher wage always comes from pockets of corporations and not your own. So, if Janek Kowalski would't steal Starbucks barista job from Rob of Gmuns, he would now enjoy his mythical non-compressed higher wages, the coffee price would remain on the same level and the difference between two would be covered by money falling from heaven. A single builders/painter wage would add to "higher standard of living across the nation" more than every customer of foreign builder/painter across the same time benefiting from lower price of services rendered. You can see where it leads.
1) To be to Mr Farage he never banged on about the cost, the "wage compression" and "lowered standard of living" were always his points along with pressure on services
2) What about the point the report was made by the person that got it so wrong in 2004? AND is was commissioned by a group connected to the EU? Doesn't that put a huge question mark of the whole thing? It does in my eyes
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Aug 2010
- Posts
- 3,114
You've quoted some scare mongering rubbish from the daily mail. What do you want me to say? That I'm sorry you take it seriously? Or perhaps I should congratulate you on finding one purposefully antagonistic article on that bastion of journalism?
what exactly is rubbish there?
he is a self confessed, convicted war criminal who has given a long and detailed account of how he took part in the slaughter of women and children.
The home office seem to be taking it seriously?
but please do tell me which part of it specifically you think invalidates it all?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nal-living-rent-free-in-Birmingham-house.html
telegraph better?
Or is your argument purley based on the newspaper not the facts?
Last edited:
Yes I would say that the telegraph is of a higher quality, and a better source than the daily mail.
There are always going to be specific individual cases of where someone who shouldn't necessarily be here is found to be. I'm not sure how stricter border controls on EU migrants would have prevented a Sudanese person getting here, or b) would stop cases like this occurring in the future?
There are always going to be specific individual cases of where someone who shouldn't necessarily be here is found to be. I'm not sure how stricter border controls on EU migrants would have prevented a Sudanese person getting here, or b) would stop cases like this occurring in the future?
I guess we'd need to wait and see the outcome of this appeal before jumping to conclusions.
Last edited:
How much is that going to cost us?
But he's wrong about wage compression and standards of living. I know he was a commodity trader (for French banks nota bene) who made his doe in eighties and couldn't find himself in new millennium (bankrupted Farage Ltd company in 2011), so his outlook might be skewed by "greed" culture and his earnings at the time, but just about everything about his assumptions is simply wrong. Eighties are remembered for financial flamboyance but employment in eighties was lower than during immigration wave of seventies. Average person not sitting next to Nigel at the trading desk had less money than decade prior. Most of us still remember what wages and standard of living were like in nineties, before minimum wage was introduced and the land was still apparently free from those pesky Eastern Europeans.
Anecdotes aside, "wage compression" argument doesn't work, because there is enough statistical data to prove it wrong in about 20 seconds. According to ONS UK average wage was the highest during the biggest influx of EU migration after the infamous expansion:
I don't know why Nigel keeps plowing with this argument because knows it is not true - these statistics were already pointed to him and his argument was shot down at least twice in recent years, including if I remember correctly during the infamous LBC interview where he used "train full of people speaking in foreign languages" and "schools full of children of immigrants with English as second language" anecdote and was grounded by interviewer pointing out that his own wife would be speaking German on that train and his own children are classified in statistics as "children of immigrant with English as second language" because one of the parents is foreign born and their mother tongue is German.
I see your point, you don't like the outcome, you look into the source, the author, you consider it biased. Happens all the time: "climate change hockey stick" "it's compiled by team led by Hansen - glorified weatherman who couldn't predict tomorrow's rain and prepared global cooling data in seventies, but yeah - today he's 100% sure his numbers are correct, right...". I actually used that and that kind of argument myself. Several times. I own it. However, for it to work, you need to have alternative compilation of the same data, showing different outcome.
Argument will not work if it's just based on rejection of author and commissioning but the numbers still check out. If only because any statistical data used by UKIP over the last years in itself is completely biased, anecdotal and never stands to verification. "Entire population of Romania and Bulgaria (including newborns and elderly) is coming to take your jobs", "75 per cent of our laws are now made in Brussels", "our membership of the EU costs £53m a day". What sources did you use for this data? "Our own in house calculations".
Last edited:
Rob, maybe spend less time browsing youtube vids to try and continue to enforce your views and take that time to answer v0ns articulate points he keeps trying to engage you with, that you previously said you would on the 4th Nov?
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 16,024
- Location
- 9th Inner Circle
Doesn't matter squirt, rochester and strood is sewn-up
So when are we going to get a reasoned answer to v0n's post?