Interstellar -- Trailer (Spoilers!)

How does he create a loop, what they show is his action (aka messing with the stream) affects the watch hand each time he touches / plucks it.

The watch is mechanical which will involve cogs and wheels to create a loop for every 12 hours so unless he replaced the mechanism in the watch he didn't create a loop. He would have had to stay there plucking at the stream millions of times.
 
Craterloads said:
How does he create a loop, what they show is his action (aka messing with the stream) affects the watch hand each time he touches / plucks it.

The watch is mechanical which will involve cogs and wheels to create a loop for every 12 hours so unless he replaced the mechanism in the watch he didn't create a loop. He would have had to stay there plucking at the stream millions of times.
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The point is that it doesn't matter how long it takes, as it all happens at the same 'time'. Time is relative, what might take him a moment to do might translate into decades elsewhere. He has the constructed tesseract and the ability to influence all moments simultaneously, not to mention the theoretical fifth dimension "mavity", the thing he uses to 'program' the watch is also being manipulated within that four dimensional space in the five dimensional construct.

Remember that the "bookcases" and "ribbons" are a visual representation of the tesseract to allow Cooper to send the information, not necessarily what is actually happening in a literal sense. The manipulation of mavity allows him to send the data in morse through the second hand of the watch...how long is the message in Murphs linear existence would be equal to how long it took Cooper to do it in his non linear existence, as the tesseract construct means he occupies all time and space simultaneously, it is his emotional connection to Murph which acts as the focus to bridge this disparity.

You are essentially asking a question that is redundant. It doesn't mean anything as time doesn't mean anything to Cooper. Cooper is essentially given a godlike ability by 'future ascended humanity' who are no longer bound by the constraints of space time.

Also I didn't say he created a loop...but that a watch, any watch with hands is an endless loop, it repeats itself every 12 hours, if it had an infinite energy supply and could never break, it would loop infinitely.
 
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Castiel said:
The point is that it doesn't matter how long it takes, as it all happens at the same 'time'. Time is relative, what might take him a moment to do might translate into decades elsewhere. He has the constructed tesseract and the ability to influence all moments simultaneously, not to mention the theoretical fifth dimension "mavity", the thing he uses to 'program' the watch is also being manipulated within that four dimensional space in the five dimensional construct.
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Just going of how they chose to present the scene. He went back to a moment in time and effected it on a 1 to 1 basis, one pluck = one movement on the watch hand. Even in his tesseract of infinite time he would still need to perform them actions on a 1 to 1 basis and if the message was playing for decades he would be pressing on the ribbons millions of times. Would be tedious at the best. Perhaps the message wasnt playing for decades but rather coop moving to a point in time when murph is looking at the watch then transmits the message is probably the answer I was looking for.
You are essentially asking a question that is redundant. It doesn't mean anything as time doesn't mean anything to Cooper. Cooper is essentially given a godlike ability by 'future ascended humanity' who are no longer bound by the constraints of space time.
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It is a pointless question but I just didn't like / get they way they presented it and was only there due to the emotional connection to the watch. Given he has such precise control of mavity to move just a single hand on a watch and not effect anything around it he could have made it easier for everyone and just flat out typed out the message onto murphs keyboard.

Also I didn't say he created a loop...but that a watch, any watch with hands is an endless loop, it repeats itself every 12 hours, if it had an infinite energy supply and could never break, it would loop infinitely.
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Sorry just appeared that way as that was my question about he continuously sent the message when it appeared to be on a 1 to 1 basis, the movement required his action.

Anyhow it isn't here nor there really in talking points, just something that bugged me.


On another note if coop listened to tesseract coops message of "stay" where would that leave tesserect coop? Would he still exist outside that reality? Also would there be different realities, for example one where he chooses to stay and another where he doesn't listen and goes etc?
 
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Craterloads said:
Just going of how they chose to present the scene. He went back to a moment in time and effected it on a 1 to 1 basis, one pluck = one movement on the watch hand. Even in his tesseract of infinite time he would still need to perform them actions on a 1 to 1 basis and if the message was playing for decades he would be pressing on the ribbons millions of times. Would be tedious at the best.
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I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's playing for decades and even if it is that means Cooper has to do it millions of times. He only has to do it once for it to happen simultaneously in all of Murphs timeframes. The tesseract is not subject to linear time.

You are imposing your linear thinking onto an expression that transcends linear considerations.

Craterloads said:
On another note if coop listened to tesseract coops message of "stay" where would that leave tesserect coop? Would he still exist outside that reality? Also would there be different realities, for example one where he chooses to stay and another where he doesn't listen and goes etc?
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This one is simpler to understand.

Fifth Dimension Cooper occupies all time and space, every eventuality, every possible route and ending of mankind has already happened.

He only has to succeed once (think of it being one of an infinite number of possible outcomes, another Cooper stays, another leaves, another cooper dies on Millers world and so on) future humanity also exists outside of this fixed linear universe, so as soon as just one of the infinite Coopers succeeds in reaching the tesseract then that creates the pathway for Humanity to eventually transcend linear time and space and therefore exist outside of the constraint imposed by a paradox such as you suggest. It doesn't matter that in another timeline Cooper stays, because it only has to succeed in one for it to apply to them all as it is the transcended humanity that created the circumstances for Cooper to succeed in getting the singularity data to Murphy. Infinite failures are meaningless as long as there is a single success as future humanity exists outside of space time.

Imagine the universe (or multiverse if you prefer) is a glass globe, infinite timelines and infinite outcomes all expressed within that glass globe...humanity is subject to the rules and constraints when extant within that glass globe, but once they transcend and are no longer bound by the globe, they are able to look into that glass globe and they can see (and exist) in every moment of existence within it as they exist without.

The humanity that created the tesseract is ubiquitous.
 
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Castiel said:
I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's playing for decades and even if it is that means Cooper has to do it millions of times. He only has to do it once for it to happen simultaneously in all of Murphs timeframes. The tesseract is not subject to linear time.

You are imposing your linear thinking onto an expression that transcends linear considerations.
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Perhaps, just remember him moving to a specific point in the stream.

Perhaps the message wasnt playing for decades but rather coop moving to a point in time when murph is looking at the watch then transmits the message is probably the answer I was looking for.
 
Craterloads said:
Given future humanity created the tesseract? hasn't humanity already succeeded?
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Future humanity doesn't abide within the glass globe. The minute Cooper succeeds they are essentially able to be the architects of his success. The future becomes the past becomes the present. They are all the same, hence the Tesseract as a vehicle to enable Cooper, a three dimensional being, to transcend the limitations placed on (universe) humanity in order for humanity to remove those shackles...once those shackles are removed it gives humanity the potential (in the future) to transcend and then remove the shackles from its own antecedents.

A circle of life so to speak, one cannot happen without the other. Chicken and the egg, or whatever appropriate analogy you want.

The defining issue is the transcendent nature of Humanity (future) and its ability to create its own destiny through manipulating its own past. (Cooper acts as both the focus and the bridge)
 
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Castiel said:
Future humanity doesn't abide within the glass globe. The minute Cooper succeeds they are essentially able to be the architects of his success. The future becomes the past becomes the present. They are all the same, hence the Tesseract as a vehicle to enable Cooper, a three dimensional being, to transcend the limitations placed on (universe) humanity in order for humanity to remove those shackles...once those shackles are removed it gives humanity the potential (in the future) to transcend and then remove the shackles. A circle of life so to speak, one cannot happen without the other. The defining issue is the transcendent nature of Humanity (future) and its ability to create its own destiny through manipulating its own past.
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So outside the glass globe there could possibly be millions of different versions of coop who have all transcended?

A circle of life so to speak, one cannot happen without the other. Chicken and the egg, or whatever appropriate analogy you want.
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Don't get that, one civilisation or set of humans would have had to succeed to create the tesseract without any manipulation of the past, why even bother messing with what would essentially be alternative realities? Where there ven alternative realities when there wasn't a tesseract since these can only be observed once you are outside the "glass globe"
 
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Craterloads said:
So outside the glass globe there could possibly be millions of different versions of coop who have all transcended?
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Coop remains inside, thus the need for the tesseract. Future Humanity exists outside of the globe, all timelines exist within the globe. (The globe is just a device for me to try to explain the difference between where we exist in a linear time frame within the universe and where future humanity exist without...think of the globe as linear time)

Think about how you might imagine Allah, extant in and outside of all things...can see the beginning and the end and everything in between. That is essentially what future humanity is, without the ability to directly intervene..this again, the tesseract construct creates the environment for Coopers linear experience to interact and understand something outside of his existence. Coopers bond with Murphy acting as the focus and the bridge from the constructed space of the tesseract to a point in time where he could pass in the quantum data necessary to create the ripple that leads to humanity transcending the globe and therefore existing simultaneously in all points of time and space. Therefore no paradox, as the paradox requires a linear timeframe, which future humanity are no longer bound by.

At least that's my opinion. The director and others might have a totally different opinion.
 
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A circle of life so to speak, one cannot happen without the other. Chicken and the egg, or whatever appropriate analogy you want.
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Don't get that, one civilisation or set of humans would have had to succeed to create the tesseract without any manipulation of the past, why even bother messing with what would essentially be alternative realities? Were there even alternative realities when there wasn't a tesseract since these can only be observed once you are outside the "glass globe" Or perhaps these future humans are beings from long before the current humans existed and as you put it are just playing god and trying to help these human within the "glass globe" survive.
 
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Craterloads said:
Don't get that, one civilisation or set of humans would have had to succeed to create the tesseract without any manipulation of the past
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Not if future humanity are not subject to the limitations of linear time. Time becomes just another medium to manipulate. They could indeed become the architects of their own transcendence. Future humanity becomes everywhere humanity, extant at the beginning of time, end of time, outside of time, time just becomes redundant...they could even potentially create the very universe that gave them birth.

Mind blowing eh?

I'm need to sleep, so I'm signing off for now..perhaps someone else could explain it better than I can, or has other ideas?
 
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Castiel said:
Not if future humanity are not subject to the limitations of linear time. Time becomes just another medium to manipulate. They could indeed become the architects of their own transcendence. Future humanity becomes everywhere humanity, extant at the beginning of time, end of time, outside of time, time just becomes redundant...they could even potentially create the very universe that gave them birth.

Mind blowing eh?
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They would be bound to linear time at one point though.

The way i'm trying to understand it is perhaps these future humans are beings from long before the current humans existed or just ones that succeeded from infinite realities and as you put it are just playing god and trying to help these human within the "glass globe" survive earths destruction.
 
Craterloads said:
They would be bound to linear time at one point though.
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However, once free of linear time, they are not bound, therefore linear time holds no meaning for them...they exist everywhere at everytime.

I'm tired, but I'll give it one more try;


You have a box with a locked one way mirrored glass lid, inside the box are beetles in strict rows (representing moments of time as experienced by humanity) the beetles can only travel in one direction in the box, one at a time in a specific order as they travel along rows in the box. Now along comes a beetle with the key to the lid...the beetle can now open the lid (transcend) and once outside can see all the beetles, including himself at the same time, marching along their rows, he can interact with them in a limited way and even give one the key he holds to give to another and another to give to himself whilst he was still in the box in order to open the lid.

Now I'm off to bed. :-)
 
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Ta, there's a few explanations online too that are rather good but seems everyone has there own take on stuff which is how it has to be given there isn't really a definitive answer.

Night night
 
Greboth said:
That is one part of the film that does make sense, it is all down to time dilation due to relativity. It is for this reason astronauts return to earth younger than they would have been had they stayed on earth, it is just more pronounced when a black hole is around.

Overall though it has its fault I really enjoyed it, not zomg amazeballs as some reviews made out but I would give it 8/10.
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This makes no sense to me. I don't see how time can be any different at any point in the universe. Yep i disagree with the theory or relativity in that sense. There is no way that time is any different anywhere else. It just makes no sense.
 
anything I don't mind said:
This makes no sense to me. I don't see how time can be any different at any point in the universe. Yep i disagree with the theory or relativity in that sense. There is no way that time is any different anywhere else. It just makes no sense.
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You don't disagree with it as you have no counter argument, you just don't understand it.
 
anything I don't mind said:
I understand it and it makes no sense to me. Time is the same everywhere, it does not matter where you are in the universe, humans will always age at the same rate.
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Relative to where they are... Do you understand time dilation at all? As said in the film even, "that's basic relativity folks".
 
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