http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/u...-by-cleveland-police-officer.html?ref=us&_r=0
"An officer fired two shots, striking the boy once, the police said"
Justified or gun happy?
- Thread starter Kronos
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/u...-by-cleveland-police-officer.html?ref=us&_r=0
"An officer fired two shots, striking the boy once, the police said"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-looked-like-a-semi-automatic-pistol/?hpid=z4
When two Cleveland police officers arrived at the scene, a rookie officer saw the boy beneath a gazebo, picking up the gun and tucking it into his waistband. Police said the officer ordered him to raise his hands, but he raised his shirt instead — reaching for the gun. The officer fired twice. One shot hit the boy in the stomach.
so when shot he had not drawn the gun.
When two Cleveland police officers arrived at the scene, a rookie officer saw the boy beneath a gazebo, picking up the gun and tucking it into his waistband. Police said the officer ordered him to raise his hands, but he raised his shirt instead — reaching for the gun. The officer fired twice. One shot hit the boy in the stomach.
so when shot he had not drawn the gun.
Of course it matters. The officers have to justifiy their actions, if the child is moving slowly and they have ample time to react then this would be difficult to justify.
Unfortunately there was no way of telling if the firearm was real, or what the boys' intentions were. It's sad, but given the current information I think that it had to be done.
INB4, 'Should have shot him in the leg / shot the gun out of his hand'.
INB4, 'Should have shot him in the leg / shot the gun out of his hand'.
No, not at all. A lot of BB's do not have the orange tip.
And as you've pointed out several times, the speed at which he drew the gun is not mentioned in the article, so it's all just supposition.
Nah, just use force pull to disarm him.
Already been suggested.
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"Where were the parents?"
Probably at home while the child is playing outdoors. I used to play with BB guns and my parents didnt have a clue about it. Because I kept it secret and had them hidden.
My parents certainly werent neglectful either.
Probably at home while the child is playing outdoors. I used to play with BB guns and my parents didnt have a clue about it. Because I kept it secret and had them hidden.
My parents certainly werent neglectful either.
The justification is he reached for a suspected weapon. That's it. It's that damn simple. Get it into your head. That's protocol. As Balky said, you wouldn't get your license despite your "hurr durr have you seen some of the cops in the US" comment. If you were reluctant to shoot someone reaching for a weapon, regardless of age, sex, race, religion, whether it was Jesus Christ incarnate himself, I would not want you as my partner. You're a liability to me and other officers.
You talk about "not arguing from a point of fact, it's supposition" but nearly everything you've tried to argue is supposition with no bearing in reality because you don't have a single clue what you're talking about when talking about firearms, firearms protocol and certainly not gun culture and gun violence in the United States apart from "hurr police shot someone" because it's not like you don't have an agenda or nothing.
Exactly, which is my whole point. It's not as simple as....
[post] Justified [/post]
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Used to play with BB guns at school/ recreational center/ public place?
I used to play with BB guns and air rifles when young. But I never left the house with them.
Also my parent did know about them.
Context would be interesting as well - if it was an area with regular gang violence the police would be even less likely (and justifiably) to take chances with something like that - even young kids get caught up in gang stuff.
From my experience US law enforcement tend to be very much on the offensive when it comes to stuff like that - I was drawn on once simply for putting my hand in my pocket without thinking when stopped by a state trooper.
From my experience US law enforcement tend to be very much on the offensive when it comes to stuff like that - I was drawn on once simply for putting my hand in my pocket without thinking when stopped by a state trooper.
I think in the BBC article that I read it said that the orange part had been removed.
As I mentioned in the thread earlier. In the US they have the orange tip, his had been removed.. In the UK you can have completely realistic imitation firearms if you're an airsoft skirmisher. If you're not, you get ones that are painted dayglo bright colours.
I believe it did.
It's neither here or there really. Past scenarios have involved real gns with a painted orange bit to fool people into thinking it was fake. Then this example, fake gun with the orange bit removed.
I would be surprised if the police actually bother taking into account the orange indicator.
The difference being that you're arguing from the position of "the article doesn't mention it so it obviously didn't happen", whereas I'm simply saying that the possibility of it happening was something the officers had to take into account at the time.
If, as you'd suggested, they'd gone in without their weapons ready, it would have been possible for him to draw and fire before they could have stopped him.
Even with UKARA registration you still have to transport RIFs in an appropriate box and can't carry them around generally in public.
Am I lying?
