In Northern Ireland I think EVERYTHING has to be on a FAC ticket now too. Really tigthened the regs since I was a kid. I just walked into a fishing and shooting shop and bought mine over the counter.
Justified or gun happy?
- Thread starter Kronos
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In Northern Ireland I think EVERYTHING has to be on a FAC ticket now too. Really tigthened the regs since I was a kid. I just walked into a fishing and shooting shop and bought mine over the counter.
No, but it does make it very obvious how biased you are
So I'm biased for pointing out facts?
I think the fact that your second post in the thread was stating that it's likely to be falsified speaks for itself.
I never said "likely" and by your own admission what I posted was accurate.
Few years back I picked up some guns for airsoft including an MP5SD6 that looks completely indistinguishable from the real thing and a friend of mine got a G36C that looks more real than the real thing lol without any hassle or verification at all, these days its another story.
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So all kids are innocent and all cops are crooks, right, got it!
Where the hell did you pull that one from?!
FARGO;27256327[B said:
And that's the crux.
If you don't know if the firearm is real or not, you act like it's real. His intentions are irrelevant. At the time of the shooting, only the kid knew his intentions. The cop didn't.
Anyone ever had a replica firearm pulled on them by a stranger? I can tell you, the last thing that goes through your mind is "oh, that might be a replica". Just because he's a cop, he's not gonna think differently.
The whole idea that this is anything but misadventure from the kid and that any blame for this lies at the door of the cop is bonkers.
Yes, the context of US society and it's guns are also to blame, but in that, the kid should know that brandishing a gun (real or not) in front of cops is likely to get you killed. It would also likely get you killed here. 12 years old or not.
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So is the notion of laying blame until witness statements have been complied and verified.
In all cases when someone is shot dead by the police questions need to be asked. Particularly when that someone is a 12 year old boy.
Has the much vaunted protocol been applied correctly in this case? And I don't just mean the actions of the officers on the ground, but the call handlers - was the information they received relayed to the responders so they had more of a clue as to the scene they were likely to find? ie some kid messing about and not a gang-banger fitting to pop a cap in yo ass.
I would question whether or not protocol has been followed correctly here at all stages of this incident, from the taking of the call to the relaying of information, to the actions of the officers at the scene.
The state has taken the life of someone who in all likelihood did not deserve it (stupidity is not mitigating) so it's only right that it comes under the most exacting scrutiny.
Incidents like these raise questions about procedure and if there's any way it can be made to work better, assuming you are working with individuals of high character to begin with, then it needs re-examining most thoroughly.
I'd not limit our discussion here as delusional excuses, as they're just the sort of ideas that will be examined by a competent investigation into the facts. Dismissing ideas as delusional, even with our abstract talking here, is a bit ...well, a bit lacking all round *shrugs*
Some days I think that we can freely discuss this sort of thing - I mean bitch about and argue over - is something we all take too much for granted.
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Because your statement asserted that cops lie and falsify records, giving the impression that all cops do it, also, you know what, its not worth arguing about, the kid took some very stupid and dodgy actions, that led to his death, very very sad case, but the police aren't to blame here.
True. But if the facts of the incident haven't been reported then we might as well give up discussing it until they are.
maybe, maybe not, but they'll certainly be judged on how well they conduct any investigation and present evidence pertinent to the case. I think their past reluctance to let the truth stand when it looks bad for them is understandably something many people will be concerned about.Space Monkey said:
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This is NOT true. you can walk into any store and pick up a BB gun, that has ZERO orange on show.
Actually some are made out of metal to look exactly like the real thing. Just as this 1911 was.
Good post.
I've purposfully avoided the PROTOCOL!!! arguement as to me there aren't enough facts to prove otherwise there was an immediate threat to innocent life.
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Yeah in the local park, shooting cans on treestumps etc. Yeah its not clever... But I was 12.
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How about more research, development and deployment of non-lethal options for police?
That said, in this situation I don't critisise the police officer for making the decision they did.
Fair play. The difference being that this was in the UK, not US. So reactions are different.
Which they do, I'm not asserting anything I've simply stated the truth. Is there an agenda in wanting to have verified facts and witness statements before posting
"Justified"
?
They have loads of effective, non-lethal ways to neutralise threats. However they are not used when it comes to firearms because the only way to neutralise someone with a gun is to kill them.
Hitting them with bean bags or rubber bullets or tasering them might work some of the time, but they can still discharge the weapon after...