EU court blocks gay asylum tests

Very well put.

A point which no doubt will be missed by many.

If a person is likely to experience death or punishment for non-crimes protected under our rights then that does qualify for then being given asylum. We value freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom from religion - these are rights we consider to applicable to all & values to claim to protect internationally. It makes perfect sense we would grant stay to those seeking a society who upholds these very values.

How do you feel about us giving refuge an atheist seeking asylum due to them facing persecution at the hands of a highly religious culture, wanting to punish him for blasphemy?.

One can walk the line without that being your belief. They shouldn't have to but bloody hell if it saves your life!
You seem to often dwell in some ethical fantasy world. Here's some news, people around the world aren't all ethical.
In some places you must do what you can to survive. Even if that means not being true to yourself.

There is no way anyone should end up on our shores claiming asylum. There are literally dozens of closer ports of call.
Last time I checked you are supposed to claim asylum in the closest friendly place. We're close to nobody!
 
There is no way anyone should end up on our shores claiming asylum. There are literally dozens of closer ports of call.
Last time I checked you are supposed to claim asylum in the closest friendly place. We're close to nobody!

First safe country, not closest, we are an island with a lot of shipping/air links, could well be so. That it often isn't I think has more to do with how unwelcome they are made to feel in a lot of countries and our lack of national ID allows them to work more easily. Not benefits. We don't even have good benefits compared to most of europe.

Anyway, Regardless of which country in the EU someone first lands on it really should be a burden shared by all, not just the med states the boats can get to. The fact there is no framework for this causes a lot of the silly 'pass the buck' shenanigans that go on currently.
 
First safe country, not closest, we are an island with a lot of shipping/air links, could well be so. That it often isn't I think has more to do with how unwelcome they are made to feel in a lot of countries and our lack of national ID allows them to work more easily. Not benefits. We don't even have good benefits compared to most of europe.

Anyway, Regardless of which country in the EU someone first lands on it really should be a burden shared by all, not just the med states the boats can get to. The fact there is no framework for this causes a lot of the silly 'pass the buck' shenanigans that go on currently.

True. I'd wager it is a lot more difficult to get here than to a whole host of other safe countries though. I think everyone here has the intelligence to know why we get so many 'asylum seekers'.
Although ideally there shouldn't be a burden to be shared at all but that will be a long time in coming.
Anyways, I stand by my first point to d.p, homosexuality isn't essential to living. Food is.
 
Pretty sure famine isn't a valid reason for asylum... so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point was that d.p. Was saying sexuality and hunger are on the same level.
They're not. One is essential for life...food. Homosexuality isn't essential for life. Infact...I'm pretty sure it's not conductive to continuing species!
 
My point was that d.p. Was saying sexuality and hunger are on the same level.
They're not. One is essential for life...food. Homosexuality isn't essential for life. Infact...I'm pretty sure it's not conductive to continuing species!

if you took your gay shades off then you might be able to join the dots and realise we have a global population crisis and furthermore that introducing gay people to society is probably a pro UKIP sentiment as they wont be taking as much taxes up to feed their non existent family.
 
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My point was that d.p. Was saying sexuality and hunger are on the same level.
They're not. One is essential for life...food. Homosexuality isn't essential for life. Infact...I'm pretty sure it's not conductive to continuing species!

I don't know. If you accept that reproduction is essential to life, and that sexuality (as the driver of reproduction in humans) is a spectrum, then logic dictates that all parts of that spectrum are essential. There's plenty of theories about how these less common sexualities are the result of overpopulation (not in the modern human-centric sense, but in the numerical survivalist sense).
 
Yes I did read it. Sorry you don't like it and thanks for your contribution. If it is confusing or maybe even clouded by the homosexuality angle, let me try and make it clearer.

If you are born in a country where conformity to that countries laws or socially accepted norm is a requirement, that probably isn't very nice for you.
If the failure to conform makes you a target for persecution, that also sucks.
If that failure to conform puts your life in danger, that is terrible.

Knowing all of that you can either choose to leave because its not for you or you can choose to be at risk by staying and not conforming.

Why by doing (or claiming to do) the latter, should you be awarded residency to another country over anyone else?

I don't believe the country I live in and the benefits system I support with the taxes I pay should be obliged to accept asylum based on an individuals choice.

My view. Take it or leave it.

I agree with this.

The problem is that people think that the country is the hero of the world, its just a part of their social justice hero stance on reality. In my opinion asylum should be kept to a minimum because lets face by UK standards the majority of the worlds population are oppressed one way or another. So what we are meant to allow all homosexuals in africa, all religious oppressed in middle east , all politically oppressed in china and so on in to the country, only so that they can feel proud about being the heroes of the planet and they call anyone who opposes this lunacy a racist and bigot and saxophone.
 
My point was that d.p. Was saying sexuality and hunger are on the same level.
They're not. One is essential for life...food. Homosexuality isn't essential for life. Infact...I'm pretty sure it's not conductive to continuing species!

Abraham Maslow would like a word in your ear. Food, air, shelter and sexual instinct are all on the bottom of the Hierarchy Of Needs and the more "touchy-feely" bits like love and belonging are only two steps up.

Anyway, I'm sure the gays are all coming over here to steal our jobs and benefits (at the same time) and turning us all gay. /UKIP
 
The problem is that as much as 5 to 7 % of the population is thought to be gay.

Can we really take in that much of Africa? Why should the few that have been able to pay huamn traffickers be allowd in? there are many many safe countries on the way to the uk but they do not seem to be running there? It's safe enough in india and very easy to slip into india from Africa without anyone knowing or caring. Do they go there for safety? No. Because they are economic migrants who are lucky enough to have a way in.

Would one be persecuted for being homosexual in any African state or only some of them? Are we being asked to take all asylum seekers that Africa has? Would rejecting all asylum seekers mean that no-one sought asylum any more and if so how would that be a better solution except for the fact that the UK would have derogated its responsibilities to humanity?

We (as the UK) are not being asked to take every asylum seeker from Africa and I'm pretty sure it's not even the majority of them. I'd obviously prefer if they weren't persecuted and those who were coming to the UK were doing so as an entirely free choice but we're very fortunate to live in a broadly liberal mostly progressive democracy - frankly if we turn people away from this country when they need our protection then I think we really cease to have the right to describe the country so positively.

Even if the countries that persecute homosexuality continue to do so they're almost certainly never going to change the base rate (5-7% if that's the figure you want to quote) - as far as I'm aware it isn't something that can be bred out, it can't be "cured" and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being homosexual so the sooner the people in charge of policy in those countries get hold of that point the better. Forcing their citizens out because of some misguided belief won't change anything.

This is possibly the first time I've heard that being a persecuted homosexual is lucky for the individual because it means they can claim asylum but I guess that's a marvellously positive spin to put on things. It's all a matter of perspective if you look at it in a certain way - "you lost a leg but no need to go on a diet any more, you now weigh 3 stone less, way to go". :p

Why do we have to "respect human dignity"? They are coming from countries that will kill them for being gay. If I was in that situation then I'd jerk off to midget transexual clown porn if that was all that was keeping me alive, stuff the dignity.

I really think the EU sits there all day thinking of new things to troll Britain with.

Once you stop respecting human dignity then you're potentially departing down a worrying path - it could be quite easy from there to see people as unworthy of dignity and it's a pretty short hop from there to stop seeing them as human. If you stop regarding people as human it's much easier to do all sorts of nasty things to them.

They can escape persecution in many countries that don't have generous welfare states. Yes and all these countries with the biggest welfare states have the most asylum seekers.

As has been pointed out we don't have a hugely generous welfare state in comparison to others. Haven't you previously said when you emigrated here you got nothing given to you by the state*? If that was the case for you then apart from the media headlines why do you believe is it so vastly different for asylum seekers?

*For the sake of argument we'll say that the economic conditions to prosper are a background issue, as is a generally safe environment, respect for property etc.
 
I don't know. If you accept that reproduction is essential to life, and that sexuality (as the driver of reproduction in humans) is a spectrum, then logic dictates that all parts of that spectrum are essential. There's plenty of theories about how these less common sexualities are the result of overpopulation (not in the modern human-centric sense, but in the numerical survivalist sense).

Your logic is flawed.
 
Abraham Maslow would like a word in your ear. Food, air, shelter and sexual instinct are all on the bottom of the Hierarchy Of Needs and the more "touchy-feely" bits like love and belonging are only two steps up.

Anyway, I'm sure the gays are all coming over here to steal our jobs and benefits (at the same time) and turning us all gay. /UKIP

Then please explain to me how, for their entire lives, people can live and suppress their sexuality?

The fact is it can be done. People can't live without food though. So again I'll repeat, he was speaking crap.
 
Then please explain to me how, for their entire lives, people can live and suppress their sexuality?

The fact is it can be done. People can't live without food though. So again I'll repeat, he was speaking crap.

In the same way that entire species of animals can stop reproducing and face extinction... The fact that other people keep on reproducing is proof that it is essential.

Yes, individual people cannot live without food but the same can be said for people collectively and sexuality.

They are requirements at different scales, that is all.
 
Then please explain to me how, for their entire lives, people can live and suppress their sexuality?

The fact is it can be done. People can't live without food though. So again I'll repeat, he was speaking crap.

Just because something can be done doesn't always make it desirable or healthy - suppressing an important facet of their personality can sometimes lead to damaging consequences for the individual.

If what you are suppressing is a natural desire which causes no harm to anyone and it's only being suppressed because of an edict outside your control then does that sound like a healthy state to be in? If there's a facet of your personality that you wish to suppress for your own reasons then that may be equally unhealthy but at least it's a choice you are making.
 
In the same way that entire species of animals can stop reproducing and face extinction... The fact that other people keep on reproducing is proof that it is essential.

Yes, individual people cannot live without food but the same can be said for people collectively and sexuality.

They are requirements are different scales, that is all.

That's not proof of that at all. Explain how, if homosexuality didn't exist, populations would die?
The fact that we have these very countries where homosexuality is forbidden shows your very argument to be utter tosh. The heterosexual individuals there seem to manage to survive just fine without them.
I'll put it simply.
Homosexuality is not essential for population survival.
People have been able to suppress or otherwise hide their true sexuality (whether homosexual or heterosexual), they continue to do so.
Therefore d.p. Asserting that a person to hide their sexuality is on the same level as going without food is...simply put...wrong.
 
Just because something can be done doesn't always make it desirable or healthy - suppressing an important facet of their personality can sometimes lead to damaging consequences for the individual.

If what you are suppressing is a natural desire which causes no harm to anyone and it's only being suppressed because of an edict outside your control then does that sound like a healthy state to be in? If there's a facet of your personality that you wish to suppress for your own reasons then that may be equally unhealthy but at least it's a choice you are making.

That's not the argument I'm making. My argument is it can be done.
And whilst it may not be a healthy state to be in, as I said before its better than some of the alternatives.
 
The whole asylum process needs rewriting and people should be taking refuge in the first safe haven not seeking asylum in a country for economic reasons. This is about saving people from persecution not furthering their station in life. We should be sending people back to the first EU country of entry.
 
The whole asylum process needs rewriting and people should be taking refuge in the first safe haven not seeking asylum in a country for economic reasons. This is about saving people from persecution not furthering their station in life. We should be sending people back to the first EU country of entry.

But we do, the Dublin convention states exactly this. And all asylum seekers in Europe are finger printed to prevent people claiming in other countries under a different identity.
 
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