Grand Jury clears NYPD Cop - Eric Garner case

phill1978 · 4 Dec 2014 at 20:56

welcome to Britain in a few years when the police are slowly replaced with G4S type private companies

dowie · 4 Dec 2014 at 20:58

Von Smallhausen said:
A small pocket knife can kill you as well as a large one, doofer.

not quite as well - certainly not as well as say a machette can

thankfully for that mentally ill person he was in the UK not the US - as much as people moan about the police over here they're probably a lot less authoritarian than most of the rest of the world's police

phill1978 · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:01

JoeF1 said:
Hope the protesting dies down in NY, i fly out there in 1 week!

dont be too selfish now will you

mattyfez · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:10

McGray said:
.....

You've only got to watch cops or look at the tattoo on one of the 'officers' legs to see a lot of police out there are nothing more than thugs with a badge.

That said the guy was a biggun and once the decision to arrest was made, he was going to get arrested. He resisted and and was taken down quite brutally as that was the quickest and safest way to do it. It's tricky as the guy is big, if I had to do it, I wouldn't be gentle. I guess it's unfortunate he died but why resist like that? It's not going to achieve anything.

There was quite a good piece on radio 4 about it, where a met officer basically said it's unfortunate, if you're not in good health you probably protest being questioned, just get arrested and released, why kick off?

Energize · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:10

doofer said:
This is a fraction of a second before they started shooting..

The guy was actually 49yrs old, he was homeless and mentally ill, he had a small pocket knife he was several feet away from anyone, look at the picture and tell me that is not an execution style Firing Squad, there's another 3 Police and a Police Dog (Which are trained for these situations) obscured by those 6 Police Officers. It's a long time since I saw the video and I've seen so many others very similar since so my actual recollection of the event was hazy, I just remember how sickened and saddened I was when I saw comments from people actually trying to justify what the Police had done, like you have just done.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-at-46-times-by-police-in-the-us-9826453.html

The link above does not link to the actual Video so should be Forum friendly.

I don't think you appreciate how quickly someone with a knife can cover a distance like that and kill someone. And I think you'll find explanation is not justification.

Nodiggidy123 · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:11

dowie said:
not quite as well - certainly not as well as say a machette can

thankfully for that mentally ill person he was in the UK not the US - as much as people moan about the police over here they're probably a lot less authoritarian than most of the rest of the world's police

This must have been a while ago now judging by the vehicles. Would be over a lotc quicker with the use of tasers.

scotty365 · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:28

STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP while I kneel my massive 30 stone bulk on your chest and squeeze the life out of you, not to mention the array of guns pointing at your head STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING

Sounds a lot like the poor fellow that died while this happened to him - yet nothing was done. Oh and the countless others that the police murder on a regular basis in the U.S

grimm · 4 Dec 2014 at 21:49

The guy that died was apparently saying/shouting that he couldn't breathe. If he were in a real choke hold then he wouldn't be able to say anything. At best he would be able to whisper/mouth the words, but he certainly wouldn't be able to speak. If I were a cop grappling with a 400lb criminal who is resisting arrest I wouldn't let go of the choke until he was unconscious.

Just to point out though, that doesn't even look like a choke in that picture, just a headlock designed to keep him in position, presumably whilst the other cops cuff him. The body positioning and arm positioning are all wrong to be an effective choke.

The fact that he died due to this is probably more to do with his overall health rather than the actions of the police officer.

dowie · 4 Dec 2014 at 22:44

grimm said:
The guy that died was apparently saying/shouting that he couldn't breathe. If he were in a real choke hold then he wouldn't be able to say anything. At best he would be able to whisper/mouth the words, but he certainly wouldn't be able to speak. If I were a cop grappling with a 400lb criminal who is resisting arrest I wouldn't let go of the choke until he was unconscious.

Just to point out though, that doesn't even look like a choke in that picture, just a headlock designed to keep him in position, presumably whilst the other cops cuff him. The body positioning and arm positioning are all wrong to be an effective choke.

a choke hold involves applying pressure on the throat... pressure was applied on the throat ergo it was a choke hold - it is a simple as that...

This if it was a 'real' choke hold he wouldn't be able to speak is just nonsense - before any MMA types or wrestling fans pop up with various technicalities regarding what they consider to be a choke hold - they're irrelevant... what is relevant is what NYPD considers a choke hold to be ergo what they've been banned from doing:

Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.

the cop's forearm was across his throat, he had difficulty breathing... it is a chokehold as far as NYPD is concerned which is all that is actually important here

Von Smallhausen · 4 Dec 2014 at 22:53

doofer said:
9 Trained Policemen with body armour and a K9 unit can't disarm and contain a small 49yr old man?

IIRC you are a serving Firearms Trained UK Police Officer?

.......

.....

...

Scary.

I've been on the force nearly 15 years but I wouldn't carry a firearm for a gold pooping pig and would find another career if it became mandatory.

The small knife - I mentioned it merely in terms of it is as lethal as a large knife and made no mention of the police response. The US and UK are inherently different and in terms of law enforcement I sincerely hope never the two shall meet.

Von Smallhausen · 4 Dec 2014 at 22:57

Nodiggidy123 said:
This must have been a while ago now judging by the vehicles. Would be over a lotc quicker with the use of tasers.

Taser is a good tactical option but it does have its limitations. I know of one lad who was coked up and extremely violent that was 'shot' twice with a Taser by two officers and it did nothing and the barbs connected both times.

RDM · 4 Dec 2014 at 23:06

For those disagreeing with the Grand Jury decision not to charge the police officer who instead do you think should make the decision?

StriderX · 4 Dec 2014 at 23:09

Sudden drop to the ground as a colossal fatty with a bunch of very burly looking cops being aggressive (with moderate reason).

Uh, honestly, the guy is fat as hell, the highest contributory factor is his own fault, twice over, for doing illegal crap, also he may have done other illegal stuff that the cops realise that aren't being reported.

Quite frankly, this is not just a cop problem, this is a cultural problem through and through.

America is fat, America is gun-biased, America is heavy on stereotyping...

Orionaut · 4 Dec 2014 at 23:13

Von Smallhausen said:
Taser is a good tactical option but it does have its limitations. I know of one lad who was coked up and extremely violent that was 'shot' twice with a Taser by two officers and it did nothing and the barbs connected both times.

Bullets from handguns dont always stop people either. That's why Cops/Others will typically keep firing until the "target" stops moving! If it takes 100 rounds, so be it!...... :eek:

!

OhEsEcks · 4 Dec 2014 at 23:19

The way the police is run in the US certainly needs an overhaul. Officers who have their license revoked in one state can up and move to another state and get another license there. That is one of the most basic things that need to change so that bad cops simply don't get shifted somewhere else.

http://www.aele.org/revocation-slu.html

Von Smallhausen · 4 Dec 2014 at 23:26

Orionaut said:
Bullets from handguns dont always stop people either. That's why Cops/Others will typically keep firing until the "target" stops moving! If it takes 100 rounds, so be it!......!

Not in this country thankfully.

grimm · 5 Dec 2014 at 02:41

dowie said:
a choke hold involves applying pressure on the throat... pressure was applied on the throat ergo it was a choke hold - it is a simple as that...

This if it was a 'real' choke hold he wouldn't be able to speak is just nonsense - before any MMA types or wrestling fans pop up with various technicalities regarding what they consider to be a choke hold - they're irrelevant... what is relevant is what NYPD considers a choke hold to be ergo what they've been banned from doing:

the cop's forearm was across his throat, he had difficulty breathing... it is a chokehold as far as NYPD is concerned which is all that is actually important here

That doesn't mean that the cop murdered him though... He died of a heart attack not asphyxiation.

The guy saying that he couldn't breathe is clearly a red herring. If you are being choked, you can't repeatedly say it out loud. The pressure being put on his throat is clearly not that high, because he would either be unconscious, or start turning blue and be unable to speak.

If a cop is grappling with a suspected criminal who is resisting arrest then he isn't going to just let the guy go rather than grab him around the neck. For all he knows the 400lb guy could turn him on his back and smash his head into the pavement, killing him.

dunker · 5 Dec 2014 at 02:49

usa? oh usa our main ally on our spaceship of a world. money money money death death death. prison profit execution profit war profit. shame.

Freakbro · 5 Dec 2014 at 08:00

I hope everyone appreciates the peaceful protesting going on over this incident, from people of every colour....

Because as much as the whole issue of police and judicial institutionalised racism in America likes to be discounted around here, it seems to be an issue that is being talked about at all levels, including Obama

Obama said:
Some of you may have heard there was a decision that came out today by a grand jury not to indict police officers who had interacted with an individual with Eric Garner in New York City, all of which was caught on videotape and speaks to the larger issues that we’ve been talking about now for the last week, the last month, the last year, and, sadly, for decades, and that is the concern on the part of too many minority communities that law enforcement is not working with them and dealing with them in a fair way.

Full statement

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014...atement-grand-jury-decision-death-eric-garner

Terminal_Boy · 5 Dec 2014 at 08:23

Von Smallhausen said:
Not in this country thankfully.

Indeed. The threat to the officer and general public is assessed for each shot a UK armed office takes. No double taps and no controlled pairs.

The officer that fires their weapon will have to justify every single action they took that day to an internal enquiry and the following Coroner's Inquest if the shooting resulted in a fatality.