fine. I don’t need your console junk
(on a more serious note, what’s your alternative ? )
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Shocking CIA torture report
- Thread starter AGD
- Start date
fine. I don’t need your console junk
(on a more serious note, what’s your alternative ? )
Soldato
Do you want me to buy you an X box?
The western world has given billions in aid to foreign countrys for development and to bring a better standard of life and what do we get ? Bombs bullets and terror .
People have had enough , I would happily torture to get end results .
This has got very little to do with defending costa coffee etc....
It's about some idiots using torture and achieving very little of value while subjecting a bunch of people (some of whom are completely innocent) to serious abuse and in some cases ending up killing them.
There was one case of an afghan taxi driver who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time... They had pretty much figured out he wasn't a terrorist but kept holding him anyway - the us military guards didn't get the memo to stop torturing him... he was hung up in his cell for 4 days by his arms (causing them to be dislocated from the sockets) then beaten regularly on the backs of his knees to the point where they would no longer bend... he then died from his injuries... his crime was to have been driving his taxi past a us base at the wrong time... someone thought he was suspicious and brought him in for questioning.
its a real tragedy for sure, processes should and probably will change. But does the average terror group think about collateral damage when they attack either ?
The US army for example are used to friendly fire and they have killed our troops too ! not just a taxi driver. Life is full of mistakes, but when a mistake turns to neglect that’s when it should be investigated.
Soldato
Absolutely tripe , do you really think the CIA or MI6/5 just turn up and say right you you and you come with me ? People are detained for a reason ,that may by association or direct evidence . I am sure there are micariges of justice but very very few.
I really don't under stand how naive some of you are , the world is a nasty place and we have people to deal with these nasty places and people . If you don't like it DO ONE.
Although I agree with most of your sentiments, I cant help but think from the way you type you look like this
No hotlinked images, if you want to post an image please rehost on your own webspace. Thank you.
ami right ?
Soldato
What would happen if we didn't torture people ?
Would Japan not sell us the ps4 ?
Would kenko coffee workers go on strike ?
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Sssssh! Nobody mention operation Demetrius!
Soldato
fine. I don’t need your console junk
(on a more serious note, what’s your alternative ? )
An alternative to torture....
To interrogate them without the torture...?
I don't think we need to add something in....we could offer them an xbox but i think most have their minds set on the new playstation.
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I think your mixing up two different arguments here.
The point is that yes wars were started for resources we needed and yes in some convoluted way those resources end up in products, but more likely those resources fuel the trucks that bring the supermarkets food.
Im not saying its right or wrong but it just is this way , we also mine for oil in our own regions, but talk about the falklands ? what was that war really about for example.
these people hate us because probably a lot of them think our 'western ways' are wrong, not just the wars but on a day to day level they disprove of quite a lot of the liberal values we hold. But they are still people and dialogue should probably always come before war.
its not just about getting the latest console vs peace, its two things:
1. our entire societies industrial blood supply is historically based on fossil fuels
2. our modern secular liberal values don’t fit into a very old ( what the west see's as ) repressive way of thinking.
but back on topic ...
does torture work ? the answer is its "less effective"
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you realise that we're the side that firebombed entire cities deliberately and carefully to maximize damage to civilians and deaths, we nuked cities, we're the ones with labs dedicated to making the most dangerous diseases more deadly and how to distribute them as effectively as possible, we're the side that tested chemical weapons on our own troops to make them more potent and vile.
If there's any side thats willing to go to any lengths it seems to be ours.
And as for an event the world will find it hard to recover from? oh please there is nothing ISIS or any terrorist organization can do that amounts to the levels of **** we have poured upon each other in this last century alone.
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." Abraham Lincoln.
Still works when you substitute "torture" for "slavery".
Soldato
Yup that must be it.....they are sat in their little mud huts hating on us.
no wait aren't they all dying to come over here and steal our jobs whilst taking our benefits ?
although slaves had rights. In fact if you look at todays 0 hour contract workforce, slaves in the traditional sense had more rights. So its a good saying but it doesn’t fit.
Soldato
OK SO DONT CRY WHEN THOSE FANATICS DECIDE TO USE THE SAME METHODS YOU SO APPROVE OF TO GAIN THEIR OWN DOMINANCE.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 9,952
How old are you? If you think that now the world is a nasty place now... Where were you, like 30 years ago.
And stop shooting incoherently. You're not doing yourself any favors (quite the opposite).
Have you ever served in the military? Ever raided a house, detained people and handed them over?
You've got a hopelessly naive view if how things work in the real world... you've certainly got no clue about how things were ten years ago when the 'war on terror' was starting... plenty of people get taken into custody and later released - when a location gets raided ecause some insurgents are supposed to be there you'll end up with other people who just live there, who might not have had much say in who was staying there and /or you might find the people being targeted have moved on... all these other people get questioned too. Torture hasn't even been shown to be effective yet you seem silly enough to just believe it is necessary cos 'freedom' 'if you want Starbucks' let them get on with it etc... you're completely clueless.
Here is how it goes wrong - this story only got out because the New York Times got hold of the medical details - the US denied this guy was tortured - it was the cause of his death - arms dislocated from sockets from being hung in a cell, legs beaten to a pulp.... he wasn't even a terrorist just a taxi driver in the wrong place.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilawar_(torture_victim)
Soldato
Wow wee, we have given so much aid we must be the good guys again, never mind the 200 years or so of colonialism and imperialism, where we have murdered, pillaged, enslaved and decimated entire nations, cultures, lands and everything for our own dominance. I'm sure they are greatful for it all and have happily accepted it.
wut . Don’t bunch me in with the UKIP posse please
Im simply stating how it seems based on what I have read. I concede I might be wrong.
In 2013 there was 17,891 'known' deaths and 32,577 injured from related attacks. In Iraq before the elections 6,378 people were killed in such events..
there is a difference here it doesn’t matter which way you want to paint it, there are 'groups' or people who hate our way of life, they also hate the life others are trying to better in their lands. Im not saying we didn’t start the fire, I haven’t said that once but either vote to change policy ( and accept the cost to the country ) or accept that this is the way that it is.
and I agree torture is bad, but its simply 'less effective' .. it does work to a degree, sadly miscarriages of justice will happen in the most rarest of cases.
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