Breaking News: Hostages taken in Sydney

I didnt hear any " Blasts " from a shotgun...although I did hear a great deal of automatic fire from what I'm assuming were the assault rifles being used by the police/special forces
 
SteveOBHave said:
Is religion his justification - sure - are his actions and crimes able to be distilled down to his religion being the driver? I don't believe so. Are all Muslims crazy and capable of mistreating women and violence? Again I don't believe so. Dude was a nutter, plain and simple, coming out swinging with the BLAME ISLAM bat makes no sense.
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Instead you come out swinging blaming mental illness :/
 
Question: In an absence of Islam/Religion are people capable of doing bad things?

Question: Was Islam a formative part of this mans upbringing?

Question: Was Islam the single major contributing factor in making him a bad man?

Question: Why are all Muslims not bad?
 
Yes,
Yes(actually don't know convert maybe),
Maybe(who really knows),
No(misread you, no ones said they are have they?).

hasnt that been covered? The point people seem to be making is you don't have to be mentally ill in order to commit such crimes.
 
SteveOBHave said:
Question: an absence of Islam/Religion are people capable of doing bad things?

Question: Was Islam a formative part of his upbringing?

Question: Was Islam the single major contributing factor in making him a bad man?

Question: Why are all Muslims not bad?
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Upbringing, don't know but people convert, become part of a circle

Why would he send out abusive messages to dead soldiers wives based around Afghan war, his background of extremist behavior,


Why are all muslims not bad? That's like saying why are all football fans not football hooligans! Because people are individuals
 
Unicorn said:
If anything it would be the tube again here though would it not. Bigger impact all round
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A bigger impact yes but it's all over to fast. If they take hostages it could last for days.
I think it's time to round up all suspect isis supporters asap.
 
It's not Islam that made this guy do these terrible things - it's mental illness and unfortunately radical Islam/jihad is a very attractive to a lot of disturbed individuals.
 
scorza said:
It's not Islam that made this guy do these terrible things - it's mental illness and unfortunately radical Islam/jihad is a very attractive to a lot of disturbed individuals.
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Pretty much all insergents/insurgency groups/individual fighters then who are mentally ill
 
SteveOBHave said:
.... that he decided to go out waving a flag that he felt provided him with justification is irrelevant...

My point is this - his religion is not to blame, the man being a crank handle, generally bad and (I'll concede until some level of mental illness is confirmed) misguided in his decision making process are. Some tenants in his religion may well have given him grounds for making poor decisions.
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Do you work for the BBC?

You can't see the wood for the trees.
 
SteveOBHave said:
Question: In an absence of Islam/Religion are people capable of doing bad things?

Question: Was Islam a formative part of this mans upbringing?

Question: Was Islam the single major contributing factor in making him a bad man?

Question: Why are all Muslims not bad?
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Yes

Yes

It seems to be the main motivator here

Different interpretations, different motivations... thee are surveys done re: beliefs held by Muslims you know... XX% of a certain country supporting suicude bombing 'often' 'sometimes' etc... ditto to stoning women for adultery, killing apostates etc... there are thankfully different views but unfortunately fundamentalist views aren't as rare as people would like - double digit % support translates to hundreds of millions of Muslims supporting very messed up acts which they believe are justified by their religious beliefs... they might be a minority but they're certainly not a small one and mental illness doesn't have to play a role either (there would be some ridiculously large numbers of mentally ill Muslims if that were the case).

FWIW plenty of suicide bombers are middle class with a good education... tis fundamentalist ideology and groupthink that are more commonly to blame. The ideology part is very naive and silly to try and deny.
 
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scorza said:
I reckon so - the psychopaths at the top, the full retards at the bottom make useful suicide bombers.
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What about Japanese Kamikaze pilots?

Soldiers who jump on grenades to save their buddies?

Pilots of drones who will bomb a house containing women and children because they know there is a high value target there.

People can kill innocents, kill themselves and rationalise the decision... it doesn't require mental illness... it just requires a belief that their actions are perhaps for the greater good or justified by their personal morals.

Someone who believes that non-Muslim lives are worthless and that he is scoring a few points against an evil power can probably justify various actions within that belief framework.

Plenty of sane, otherwise decent people used to own slaves - they just believed that the people they kept weren't the same as them but were lesser humans.
 
Maybe some people take comfort from assuming muslim terrorists are mentally ill because the alternative is too scary.

Its sadly naive.
 
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