ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

arknor said:
How would (could!) we react if they acquired the starship enterprise ? it's about as likely
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Not true at all!

Tac level devices were manufactured in vast numbers during the cold war. Many in the old USSR remain unaccounted for.

HEU, while hard to manufacture for a non-industrial socioty, has a good "Shelf life" and is very easy to make a bomb with. HEU was also manufactured in vast quantities during the cold war. There is no doubt in my mind that somebody suffficiently determined could get hold of the 20 or so KG necessarry to make a nuke.

Also you dont need a Nuke to do Nuke level damage.

500Kg of gunpowder and a couple of hundred Kg of HLW in the back of a van in the right place could actually cause a load MORE damage than a "Fat Man" bomb.

There are also other highly destructive devices that could be relativity easily deployed by a sufficiently determined enemy.

Again I say, How would we respond to thousands of people being killed or injured in a spectacular single incident?
 
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Orionaut said:
Indeed, However a more important question is how would (Could!) we react were ISIS to acquire a Tac-Nuke and detonate it in, say, New York or London?
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Even if that some how happened, there would be no way to react with a counter strike. Who would be targeted? Just fling a few nukes over the horizon and hope you hit somewhere legitimate and forget about the millions of innocent and unreleased folk?

Fanatic fantasy talk.
 
Orionaut said:
Again I say, How would we respond to thousands of people being killed or injured in a spectacular single incident?
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That's what i said in a previous post, i think at some point in our lifetimes, say in the next 20-30 years we will have a single big detonation in a major western city killing many thousands. Most likely in the UK or US as that will cause the most psychological impact round the world.

When that happens i'm very sure the UK/US will actually have a nuclear response on the table. At that point everyone will be baying for blood and will rather wash their hands of an entire region and believe the world be better off without them. And i would feel for Muslims in Europe because at that point they'd be having Mosques burnt down and forced to leave, regardless if they were born in those countries.

Hopefully it'll never happen as i think even ISIS would know the impact of such an attack would be, and it would harm their agenda.

Captain Planet said:
Fanatic fantasy talk.
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You might see it as fantasy talk, but you're on the extreme end of liberalism and wouldn't see the wood for the trees. There aren't that many people who think like you believe it or not, especially amongst those in power. And as you should know liberalism in Europe is dying a death as a political movement.
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
Speculation based on common practice. When the USA sold M1 Abrahms tanks to the Egyptians, they sold the basic export model without the special armour and without the advanced fire control system.
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Slightly different case with Egypt mind as they have production licenses for those tanks/equipment for those tanks and can complete or build them themselves to various specs hence they are generally shipped the base bare bones tank if purchased from the US.
 
Captain Planet said:
Even if that some how happened, there would be no way to react with a counter strike. Who would be targeted? Just fling a few nukes over the horizon and hope you hit somewhere legitimate and forget about the millions of innocent and unreleased folk?

Fanatic fantasy talk.
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You are avoiding the question.

Everything you are saying is correct.

But that is not an answer.

Again I say! How would (Could) we respond???!
 
robgmun said:
i think at some point in our lifetimes, say in the next 20-30 years
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I am waiting for tomorrows headlines!

Not a Nuke, but some sort of outrage.

I will be more than happy if tomorrows headlines describe a peaceful world and prove me to be a paranoid nut-case. nevertheless, for myself I wouldn't want to be in any traditionally well congregated public place tonight!
 
Rroff said:
Slightly different case with Egypt mind as they have production licenses for those tanks/equipment for those tanks and can complete or build them themselves to various specs hence they are generally shipped the base bare bones tank if purchased from the US.
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Egypt is an excellent example of why you don't sell your best military kit to other countries. Pro USA government before the Arab Spring, now not so much.

Of course, you can't just drive an MBT into main gun range of the USA, so they're a little less of a potential own goal enabler than an squadron of fighter planes.
 
robgmun said:
You might see it as fantasy talk, but you're on the extreme end of liberalism and wouldn't see the wood for the trees. There aren't that many people who think like you believe it or not, especially amongst those in power. And as you should know liberalism in Europe is dying a death as a political movement.
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The extreme end of liberalism? You make some strange assumptions on very little material. You also seem very sure of things you think you know to be fact. Instead, I believe much of this is just your opinion. Stating something as fact doesn't make it so.
 
robgmun said:
You might see it as fantasy talk, but you're on the extreme end of liberalism and wouldn't see the wood for the trees. There aren't that many people who think like you believe it or not, especially amongst those in power. And as you should know liberalism in Europe is dying a death as a political movement.
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He is right though.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
Egypt is an excellent example of why you don't sell your best military kit to other countries. Pro USA government before the Arab Spring, now not so much.

Of course, you can't just drive an MBT into main gun range of the USA, so they're a little less of a potential own goal enabler than an squadron of fighter planes.
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Indeed - though the home grown versions of the kit are generally considered inferior to the stuff imported from the US even with licenses to produce it.
 
Captain Planet said:
The extreme end of liberalism? You make some strange assumptions on very little material. You also seem very sure of things you think you know to be fact. Instead, I believe much of this is just your opinion. Stating something as fact doesn't make it so.
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I've seen you post in various threads for months on end and you always take an extreme liberal view on any subject, you might see it as 'enlightened' but to the rest of us it's just extreme liberalism. And like i said people are moving away from those views in droves across Europe. On the other hand you're absolutely right, it's only my opinion on what 'could' happen if such an attack were to happen. It's one of many scenarios that could play out but it's fairly likely one, as i reckon many sections of society across Europe are on the brink of "enough is enough" and an attack on this scale could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You have to play out these scenarios so you know what to do/not to do in such an event and not be left with your balls in your hands not knowing what to do in a effective manner. To just plug your fingers in your ears and go lalalala expecting the whole world to react in the same way you would, would be an enormous fallacy
 
Lol you're always so dramatic. It must be a crap life living in constant fear if imminent annihilation. Truth be told, you're safer now than you ever were.

"the rest of us". These are statements you make far too often. You are not a spokesman for the people. You don't represent a majority. It's like your outbursts on UK politics.
 
Captain Planet said:
Even if that some how happened, there would be no way to react with a counter strike. Who would be targeted? Just fling a few nukes over the horizon and hope you hit somewhere legitimate and forget about the millions of innocent and unreleased folk?
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I would agree with you, but then the USA did invade two countries and slaughter millions of civilians because a handful of terrorists flew a couple of planes into two NYC skyscrapers. Hell the whole existence of ISIS pretty much comes from that offensive.

America doesn't seem to get the idea that the harder they react the harder it comes back at them (9/11 itself was retaliation for stuff the US had done previously in the middle east) they constantly play the victim and the self righteous good guy even though they are just as bad in perpetuating the conflict.
 
ubersonic said:
I would agree with you, but then the USA did invade two countries and slaughter millions of civilians because a handful of terrorists flew a couple of planes into two NYC skyscrapers. Hell the whole existence of ISIS pretty much comes from that offensive.

America doesn't seem to get the idea that the harder they react the harder it comes back at them (9/11 itself was retaliation for stuff the US had done previously in the middle east) they constantly play the victim and the self righteous good guy even though they are just as bad in perpetuating the conflict.
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Isis was in the making waaay longer than 'the war'. It was actually one of goals of Al Qaeda (ding! ding! ding!). They started the ball rolling by prodding the US into action quite successfully. My guess is they thought Afghanistan could provide them with what they wanted, but it didn't go to plan. I don't know if they banked on Bush being a total moronic jackass, but it worked and now the middle east is even more of a mess. That Bin Laden (ding! ding! ding!) was a deranged, ruthless religious nut, but a clever fellow.

They are using the same tactics again by constantly poking the bear. Will it bite? Will they do something really, really stupid. Or will we just get more wannabe mass murderers, more wide-net surveillance, more damage control, more fear, more compromises, and for what. A bunch of Jihadis whose wet dream is to nuke or gas entire cities, because religion or whatever. That's the fear behind this whole mess. Not what they are actually doing down there in the desert. Nobody gives a damn about that.

So then... Are we enabling their policies to develop and possibly materialise, while perpetuating this nonsense? Or are we just, not really afraid of these morons and their in-laws in the caves, and it's all a smoke screen? I don't think the US government cares either way. Makes for a good political platform comes election time.

In any case, the rhetoric of the last 20 years of american foreign policy is pretty clear. Freedom, democracy, good guys, bad guys, let's go get them, mission accomplished... My arse must taste like chicken.
 
Reports coming in now that ISIS have used chemical weapons, will be interesting to see how the west reacts to this considering out governments went full retard over the mere suggestion that Assad used them.
 
ubersonic said:
Reports coming in now that ISIS have used chemical weapons, will be interesting to see how the west reacts to this considering out governments went full retard over the mere suggestion that Assad used them.
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I said before, one way they (US) could go would be to let off a nuke at ground level in a major ISIS strong hold then claim that it was ISIS accidentally letting it off while preparing the nuke for a terrorist attack somewhere else.
 
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