Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

I like to think about it this way....


I'm an atheist. Some of my friends are moderately religious, and some are devoutly religious. It doesn't really bother me - people can believe what they want as long as they aren't affecting me.

However, if other atheists started running around with guns and shooting devoutly religious people who weren't harming anyone, I'd protest. And by protest, I don't mean writing a few meaningless words on twitter about how terrible it all is, I mean I'd actually go outside and protest against it, as, I suspect, would the vast majority of atheists.

Problem is, I'm just not seeing that response from Muslims. Most of my Muslim friends seem to act as if these people are simply misguided, or "going about things in the wrong way". Almost as if they agree with the motives, and only disagree with the actions. And personally, I find that deeply worrying.

I live in France, and work in a very liberal institution, full of highly educated people who are almost all far more intelligent and worldly than I am. Nonetheless, their comments on the events of today make Will21st's posts in this thread seem extremely moderate. I can say for sure that however badly this has gone down in England, it will go down far, far worse in France, and not just because of where this occurred.
 
scorza said:
Loads of protests against these killings taking place tonight in French cities, where typically French Muslims live. I think there's going to be quite a lot of trouble tonight.
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I think you might be right, especially as it's Paris.

Let's hope this gets resolved "peacefully" (as far as peaceful can apply to such a horrendous event).
 
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On the news, not showing the cover of the most recent edition. Just the title and headline.

Not sure if irrelevant or spineless...
 
Tim Minchin said:
“If you actually do take any time to think about this notion of sacredness, you very quickly stumble upon the truth that sacredness isn’t held inside objects or people or institutions that are held sacred, but rather in the minds, the collective minds, of those who have come to believe or have been taught to believe that they’re sacred.

And that’s actually fine, you know? That’s your human right, to hold sacred what you will. If you want to imbue earthly objects with supernatural agency that’s your right, and for that matter I would do a pooey placard and march beside you in the streets to defend your right to hold sacred what you will.


but I personally don’t think that that means you get to tell other people what they should hold sacred. I don’t think you get to tell me what historical figures I can or cannot satirise in cartoon form and I don’t think you get to tell me who I may or may not criticise and what language I’m allowed to use when criticising them, because if there’s one thing that history has taught us, it’s that if too many people hold a thing or a person or an institution sacred then they are by definition beyond criticism. And unfortunately, it seems as if when humans get beyond criticism, they seem to slip inexorably towards corruption.”

Tim Minchin - Preamble to Pope Song
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Sums up my thoughts
 
Leaked Statement from Cameron:

David Cameron said:
After events in France today, we, the UK Govt. have decided that in an effort to subdue and eradicate all threats to the Security of the United Kingdom with immediate effect by blanket banning ALL Satirical Comedy (Including Parody) relating to our much loved and tolerant Religion of Peace, this will hopefully emphasise and strengthen our wonderful UK Multi-Cultural Enrichment Diversity Policy.
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ak22 said:
Not sure where you get your facts from but many, many, many times have Islamic leaders condemned acts of terrorism these acts are Islamic after all. Just do a quick Google.... You just won't see it on the front page of daily mail.

Just to give you example:
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The point I was (perhaps badly) trying to make is there's a difference between condemning and actually doing something about these people who continue to do this in the name of Islam. Don't just condemn the act, condemn the people and make it clear as leaders and holy men that the expectation is no muslim should protect or cover up for these people. All this and in the name of building bridges be very visible in doing so leaving others in no doubt this act has no support from any right thinking muslim or foundation in the Islamic faith.

Assuming you know a little more about this than i do from your response, do you have any thoughts on if/how the Islamic leadership could use a Fatwa or something similar to make these lunatics outside the faith and in effect take away their cloak of doing the Prophets work? As I say (and I apologise for the clumsy comparison) but a similarity to being excommunicated - if you do atrocities like this let there be no misunderstanding, you will be individually responsible for your actions and forgo (assuming you have these strong religious beliefs) your place in heaven. No martyrdom, no doing gods work, no forgiveness and you die as an infidel outside of the Islamic faith.

Again, apologies for my poor understanding but I'm sure you can work at what i'm getting at, I'd be interested to get a view if there was a way for Islam itself to make clear to these nutters that these acts are an affront to Islam as well as any kind of common decency?
 
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Macro said:
The point I was (perhaps badly) trying to make is there's a difference between condemning and actually doing something about these people who continue to do this in the name of Islam. Don't just condemn the act, condemn the people and make it clear the as leaders that the expectation is no muslim should protect or cover up for these people.
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+1. But it wont happen
 
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