Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

Dis86 · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:32

titaniumx3 said:
Islam doesn't work that way, we don't have a pope, it's pretty decentralised.

That's what you took away from that? Not that entire groups of people can share a burden of guilt? Not that huge communities can?

You take away 'oh we don't have a central leadership so it's ok'.

spudbynight · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:33

titaniumx3 said:
Islam doesn't work that way, we don't have a pope, it's pretty decentralised.

Which is why when people say "this isn't Islam" they are just wrong. There isn't a definitive source to go to.

olivier renault · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:34

titaniumx3 said:
As a muslim, I honestly don't get what I should do about this other than voice my opposition against it, which is pretty redundant anyway. Seems to be something that's specific to Islam as no one other group of people seem to have to share the burden of guilt like this.

It's hard to keep the crazies out when they are practically running over one another to get the limelight. Not the same can be said about moderates. They don't seem particularly interested in curbing their enthusiasm for bloodshed.

titaniumx3 · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:34

Dis86 said:
That's what you took away from that? Not that entire groups of people can share a burden of guilt? Not that huge communities can?

You take away 'oh we don't have a central leadership so it's ok'.

I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying that I shouldn't have to apologise for something that a bunch of idiots did, who've got nothing to do with me other than they say they are muslims. It's absolutely absurd to think otherwise.

muon · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

Westyfield2 said:

How does a religion give up violence?

spudbynight said:
Which is why when people say "this isn't Islam" they are just wrong. There isn't a definitive source to go to.

Surely the reverse is true? How can someone say it is Islam?

At least a Muslim can say, it isn't what they personally believe in.

lemonade · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

Dis86 said:
That's what you took away from that? Not that entire groups of people can share a burden of guilt? Not that huge communities can?

You take away 'oh we don't have a central leadership so it's ok'.

So why should titanium apologise? what does he have to do with this attack?

chief barker · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

titaniumx3 said:
Islam doesn't work that way, we don't have a pope, it's pretty decentralised.

Which is fundamentally part of the islamic problem, you have no central leadership and no one belief.

ak22 · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

lemonade said:
You don't have to share the burden of guilt for the actions of individuals. The same way some random person of the street of Britain isn't responsible for the actions of the government when they bomb some country and kill people.

Well said its a shame more people don't have this attitude, the world would be better place.

Gooner Leroy · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

titaniumx3 said:
As a muslim, I honestly don't get what I should do about this other than voice my opposition against it, which is pretty redundant anyway. Seems to be something that's specific to Islam as no one other group of people seem to have to share the burden of guilt like this.

To be honest if you don't bring about world peace, bring equality all over the globe and reintroduce the unicorn to the yorkshire dales then please hang your head in shame

Xordium · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:35

titaniumx3 said:
As a muslim, I honestly don't get what I should do about this other than voice my opposition against it, which is pretty redundant anyway.

Well this is something that only you can figure out. I know personally if I believed in a god that had created the universe and created man in his own image through love then I'd do a little bit more to promote that message of peace. But each to their own. I am not targeting you but I wonder how many Muslims actively spread the message of peace at such times and how many hours on their PCs or watching TV they do? In which case you have to wonder what their true gods are. Or what is really important in their lives when judged on actions not words.

StriderX · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:37

muon said:
How does a religion give up violence?

By taking up fraud instead, or child molestation.

'tis a joke, but oddly true regardless.

BusError · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:37

Well I hope they catch them alive, and tattoo them a cartoon of mahomet on the forehead. Possibly tattoed with a pencil, as poetic justice.
I think it would be very nice to deny them their 'martyrdoom' and make them living insults to their own idiotic religion.

I'm one of the generally rather laid back atheist, and like many, I don't mind other religions or opinions. But, you have to stop the 'understanding' phase at some point, and whack them with their own stick.

ReltonBFD · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:39

lemonade said:
Lol well that is quite frankly laughable, since so many Imam's are quick to condemn even before an attack has been confirmed to be done by a muslim.

should have said in mosque's he has visited , in person , but ofcourse you assumed that but thought you would be a smart ass instead . nice one

dowie · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:40

titaniumx3 said:
I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying that I shouldn't have to apologise for something that a bunch of idiots did, who've got nothing to do with me other than they say they are muslims. It's absolutely absurd to think otherwise.

what do you believe that the punishments under Islamic law are for insulting the prophet?

(I'm aware that there are various clauses about obeying the laws of the land you live in and who should carry out a punishment etc..)

Dis86 · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:40

titaniumx3 said:
I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying that I shouldn't have to apologise for something that a bunch of idiots did, who've got nothing to do with me other than they say they are muslims. It's absolutely absurd to think otherwise.

But they do have a significant link to you. They believe in the same teachings you do. That, importantly, is a thing of choice.

I can personally say if a member of my family or someone who shared a significant connection with me did such horrendous things I'd feel guilt. I'd hope I could have enough influence on them to stop them doing such things.

That here is the problem really, nobody in Islam wants to stand up and say that it's wrong. Nobody wants to be a true leader. They pay lip service 'oh yes, we condemn these attacks' but very rarely do they stand up against them. Look at ISIS in Iraq, entire villages and towns accepting them. You could say it's out of fear...that doesn't make it ok. You should not let others suffer just because you're afraid.
I've got the physical scars to show that I've stood up to people in such situations.

NVP · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:41

dowie · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:41

muon said:
How does a religion give up violence?

well the church used to have courts - they used to kill heretics

killing people is pretty violent

they then progressed a bit and decided that death for heresy is no longer appropriate so they essentially gave up that violent bit

chief barker · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:41

R.I.P to all the victims.

spudbynight · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:42

muon said:
How does a religion give up violence?

Surely the reverse is true? How can someone say it is Islam?

At least a Muslim can say, it isn't what they personally believe in.

The point I am making is that (as with any holy book) you need to understand the meaning of the text.

If a moderate Muslim says the meaning is X then their view doesn't have any more weight than if nutter Muslim says it means Y.

spudbynight · 7 Jan 2015 at 20:43

dowie said:
well the church used to have courts - they used to kill heretics

killing people is pretty violent

they then progressed a bit and decided that death for heresy is no longer appropriate so they essentially gave up that violent bit

Well actually the Church didn't kill heretics. Heretics were killed by secular bodies.