Shooting at French Satirical Magazine
- Thread starter Westyfield2
- Start date
I found this to be a good read: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/margin...rlie-why-i-wont-let-the-muslims-off-the-hook/
Think it somes up what most people are trying to express with re to denouncing/ speaking out.
Think it somes up what most people are trying to express with re to denouncing/ speaking out.
They did it because they believed in an extremist version of Islam and acted upon it. Not because they are Muslim.
The comparison is pretty simple: You are asking a group that has been grouped together by a SINGLE characteristic to vocally stand out against a minority within the group, when you don't expect to provide the same courtesy of a group which you may be a part of yourself.
Also,
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Not quite the marching in the streets and televised condemnations I'd hoped for...
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the point is, why should it be a risk? it's the 21st century ffs, not the 16th.
stephen fry hit the nail on the head with his 'offended' soundbite. these people shouldn't get so riled about the mocking of their god.
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A hollow gesture at best, simply not good enough
So they put out a lazy statement and that's it? Did you see all the protests last night? The crowds where overwhelmingly white, where are the Muslims holding the "Je suis Charlie" signs? go to the BBC and the Mail and check the photos.
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Islam is simply the overarching subject for these people, and it is used to manipulate and indoctrinate many men who have fire in their belly over what they see as injustice. Many will be poorly educated and looking for an outlet and jump at the chance when promised a better life, and importantly promised justice. In some cases you can understand their hate. If your family is blown up by a mis-aimed missile fired by 'the west' you would be angry too. In that regard I do not think you can ever say western foreign policy has not been a huge catalyst to radicalising men into an extreme brand of Islam.
Others will just be trouble makers who like fighting and killing and doing it in the name of Islam is a convenient outlet.
Others will be disenfranchised and manipulated by other Muslims who are operating on an agenda and care not a jot for the men fighting for them as long as they do as they are told (or face the consequences). Indeed we often see this dynamic in gang culture in this country, for example.
Others will just be guns for hire who can talk the talk but are only interested in the end game - how much they get paid and not dying.
ISIS use their particular brand of Islam as a means to an end. Their leaders want their own territory where they make the rules and live like kings. For them to do this, the people in their way have to submit or die and they also need an army willing to die for a cause. Crucially, that cause does not need to be the true cause of the fighting (power, greed etc). If you give someone a purpose and you give them a cause they will die for you have a perfect army. It does not matter if their cause is not the true cause of their leaders, it only matters that they believe it is. In this respect Islam is a perfect tool because it is easy to mis-represent it to those who are looking to belong, who are disillusioned and suffering and who may not have the upbringing and education to question it. ISIS are an example of what happens when anyone with an extremist bigoted/racist/sexist/xenophobic agenda comes to the fore. The only difference is the name shouted when they pull the trigger (For Allah, for King and Country, for the Fuhrer etc etc). As an example, what would happen if the BNP were the total power in this country? They control the army, the police and had an army of angry bigots armed to the teeth and willing to pull the trigger. Would our Muslim population be safe?
What ISIS are doing is no different to what the Romans did, or indeed what the British have done in our colonial days, or what Hitler did. It is a promise of a better tomorrow, and a promise of justice. That is not to say I condone it, but to simply highlight it is nothing new.
The problem is when you have two sides who believe to the death that they are right, you will have war and killing till the end of time until one gives in or is wiped out.
Such is the nature of man, unfortunately. We are both the most intelligent and equally the most ridiculously stupid species on the planet. But it is a tale as old as time itself, and blaming Islam for the acts of those who use it as a tool is short sighted. It is, as it always has been, about the people at the top of their chain getting land, money and power.
Others will just be trouble makers who like fighting and killing and doing it in the name of Islam is a convenient outlet.
Others will be disenfranchised and manipulated by other Muslims who are operating on an agenda and care not a jot for the men fighting for them as long as they do as they are told (or face the consequences). Indeed we often see this dynamic in gang culture in this country, for example.
Others will just be guns for hire who can talk the talk but are only interested in the end game - how much they get paid and not dying.
ISIS use their particular brand of Islam as a means to an end. Their leaders want their own territory where they make the rules and live like kings. For them to do this, the people in their way have to submit or die and they also need an army willing to die for a cause. Crucially, that cause does not need to be the true cause of the fighting (power, greed etc). If you give someone a purpose and you give them a cause they will die for you have a perfect army. It does not matter if their cause is not the true cause of their leaders, it only matters that they believe it is. In this respect Islam is a perfect tool because it is easy to mis-represent it to those who are looking to belong, who are disillusioned and suffering and who may not have the upbringing and education to question it. ISIS are an example of what happens when anyone with an extremist bigoted/racist/sexist/xenophobic agenda comes to the fore. The only difference is the name shouted when they pull the trigger (For Allah, for King and Country, for the Fuhrer etc etc). As an example, what would happen if the BNP were the total power in this country? They control the army, the police and had an army of angry bigots armed to the teeth and willing to pull the trigger. Would our Muslim population be safe?
What ISIS are doing is no different to what the Romans did, or indeed what the British have done in our colonial days, or what Hitler did. It is a promise of a better tomorrow, and a promise of justice. That is not to say I condone it, but to simply highlight it is nothing new.
The problem is when you have two sides who believe to the death that they are right, you will have war and killing till the end of time until one gives in or is wiped out.
Such is the nature of man, unfortunately. We are both the most intelligent and equally the most ridiculously stupid species on the planet. But it is a tale as old as time itself, and blaming Islam for the acts of those who use it as a tool is short sighted. It is, as it always has been, about the people at the top of their chain getting land, money and power.
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So they tweeted, well that's good of them(not). When will we see them on the streets protesting?
That's right...Never.
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The comparison is pretty simple: You are asking a group that has been grouped together by a SINGLE characteristic to vocally stand out against a minority within the group, when you don't expect to provide the same courtesy of a group which you may be a part of yourself.
Also,
Still failing, as none of those charged with his murder stated that the did it for my faith, my people or my race.
That you weren't apologising for something that was done by someone completely unrelated to you, for a cause you utterly detest.
I deplore racism. I am still not sure what your point is.
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You seem to have missed the entire point that was made and then challenged <sigh>
The Church didn't kill people over heresy. Secular authorities killed people for heresy.
Assumptions (possibly more than that) were made that it was racially motivated. Plus, do crazy killers always honestly admit their justifications for these things? More than that, if you're so unhinged that you'd do something like this then surely whatever your motivations have been twisted and perverted. Surely it doesn't matter what they stated?!
Would mainstream media give them airtime or even try to get an interview from then?
The crowds were overwhelmingly white? Wait what! in an a predominiantly white western country?
And if they go on the streets protesting you three will be saying that's not good enough
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Don't several (reputable) sources claim the number of worldwide Muslims to be extremist at about 15%?
That you weren't apologising for something that was done by someone completely unrelated to you, for a cause you utterly detest. Yet criticise a muslim woman for doing the same.
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You seriously expected a Muslim to hold a sign supporting members of a magazine which made a theme out of ridiculing their religion?
Perhaps expect Muslims to take part in the protests by all means, but be sensible. I wouldn't be surprised if Muslims didn't feel safe enough to take part to be honest.