Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

Freefaller said:
Well as the "West" we've tried the war on terror, and that's not really getting us anywhere.

I don't really know the answer - we need to be brave, and we need to somehow get the silent majority to be vocal and rise against their "leaders" and be very clear that this behaviour in the name of <insert whatever ideology or country here> is unacceptable. The stronger the resistance to this behaviour, the stronger the condemnation and lack of acceptance, the sooner the extreme few will be found, the more likely it will be for someone to pass the right information to apprehend the right people.. And the sooner this sort of extremism will die down - perhaps.

I know it's a lot of ifs and buts, but I don't really have the answer. I just don't believe in fighting fire with fire in this instance, as all that will lead to is far more death and destruction and sadness. I guess I'm blindly hoping that we have learned from our numerous lessons of the past to realise that this obliteration of one another is no longer the way to behave.

It's so easy to say, "ban this, forbid that, exclude this..." and then create a less than free state, but that "utopia" won't last. Banning say Islam, or meat or non PC jokes, or making all these things arrestable or deporting people for such things will not solve the problem, but will just throw petrol on the fire. IT may subdue it temporarily, slow it down, but the momentum of another discontentment will ensue and the cycle starts over again.

It's just as easy to say, nuke them all - but who are "them"? We don't even know what this is all about. It's tantamount to bullying really.

Do I think we should be able to make non PC jokes and not be shot for it? Yes of course. Do I think that sometimes people don't think that some things may be hugely hurtful or offensive? Yes. Do I think anything justifies the eradication or killing of people? No definitely not.

Just to make it abundantly clear, I stand in solidarity with my French compatriots towards this act, and find it shocking, saddening and confusing. Do I want blood? No. Do I want to understand and stop this from happening again, yes.
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Good post
 
Freefaller said:
Well as the "West" we've tried the war on terror, and that's not really getting us anywhere.

I don't really know the answer - we need to be brave, and we need to somehow get the silent majority to be vocal and rise against their "leaders" and be very clear that this behaviour in the name of <insert whatever ideology or country here> is unacceptable. The stronger the resistance to this behaviour, the stronger the condemnation and lack of acceptance, the sooner the extreme few will be found, the more likely it will be for someone to pass the right information to apprehend the right people.. And the sooner this sort of extremism will die down - perhaps.

I know it's a lot of ifs and buts, but I don't really have the answer. I just don't believe in fighting fire with fire in this instance, as all that will lead to is far more death and destruction and sadness. I guess I'm blindly hoping that we have learned from our numerous lessons of the past to realise that this obliteration of one another is no longer the way to behave.

It's so easy to say, "ban this, forbid that, exclude this..." and then create a less than free state, but that "utopia" won't last. Banning say Islam, or meat or non PC jokes, or making all these things arrestable or deporting people for such things will not solve the problem, but will just throw petrol on the fire. IT may subdue it temporarily, slow it down, but the momentum of another discontentment will ensue and the cycle starts over again.

It's just as easy to say, nuke them all - but who are "them"? We don't even know what this is all about. It's tantamount to bullying really.

Do I think we should be able to make non PC jokes and not be shot for it? Yes of course. Do I think that sometimes people don't think that some things may be hugely hurtful or offensive? Yes. Do I think anything justifies the eradication or killing of people? No definitely not.

Just to make it abundantly clear, I stand in solidarity with my French compatriots towards this act, and find it shocking, saddening and confusing. Do I want blood? No. Do I want to understand and stop this from happening again, yes.
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Fair enough - it takes a brave man to admit when they don't have any answers, if only our politicians could be as brave. For me, blood isn't the answer, but neither is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We need to be brave and try different things and find out what works and what doesn't. In the west, we've gotten soft, decadent and torpid - this needs to recognised and reversed. It's not about pointless violence in retaliation, it's about taking the right actions at the right time and having the right laws in place that facilitate this and don't offer sanctuary to the same people that don't recognise the rule of law.
 
Freefaller said:
Well as the "West" we've tried the war on terror, and that's not really getting us anywhere.

I don't really know the answer - we need to be brave, and we need to somehow get the silent majority to be vocal and rise against their "leaders" and be very clear that this behaviour in the name of <insert whatever ideology or country here> is unacceptable. The stronger the resistance to this behaviour, the stronger the condemnation and lack of acceptance, the sooner the extreme few will be found, the more likely it will be for someone to pass the right information to apprehend the right people.. And the sooner this sort of extremism will die down - perhaps.

I know it's a lot of ifs and buts, but I don't really have the answer. I just don't believe in fighting fire with fire in this instance, as all that will lead to is far more death and destruction and sadness. I guess I'm blindly hoping that we have learned from our numerous lessons of the past to realise that this obliteration of one another is no longer the way to behave.

It's so easy to say, "ban this, forbid that, exclude this..." and then create a less than free state, but that "utopia" won't last. Banning say Islam, or meat or non PC jokes, or making all these things arrestable or deporting people for such things will not solve the problem, but will just throw petrol on the fire. IT may subdue it temporarily, slow it down, but the momentum of another discontentment will ensue and the cycle starts over again.

It's just as easy to say, nuke them all - but who are "them"? We don't even know what this is all about. It's tantamount to bullying really.

Do I think we should be able to make non PC jokes and not be shot for it? Yes of course. Do I think that sometimes people don't think that some things may be hugely hurtful or offensive? Yes. Do I think anything justifies the eradication or killing of people? No definitely not.

Just to make it abundantly clear, I stand in solidarity with my French compatriots towards this act, and find it shocking, saddening and confusing. Do I want blood? No. Do I want to understand and stop this from happening again, yes.
Click to expand...

You can't ban Islam and I don't think many are suggesting that, but you can crackdown on extremist scholars, their followers and their financial backers. The war on terror will go on as to let ISIS for example take a tighter grip on the middle east is unthinkable. We would only store up bigger problems for later by appeasing them or al-qaeda.
 
Freefaller said:
Well as the "West" we've tried the war on terror, and that's not really getting us anywhere.

I don't really know the answer - we need to be brave, and we need to somehow get the silent majority to be vocal and rise against their "leaders" and be very clear that this behaviour in the name of <insert whatever ideology or country here> is unacceptable. The stronger the resistance to this behaviour, the stronger the condemnation and lack of acceptance, the sooner the extreme few will be found, the more likely it will be for someone to pass the right information to apprehend the right people.. And the sooner this sort of extremism will die down - perhaps.

I know it's a lot of ifs and buts, but I don't really have the answer. I just don't believe in fighting fire with fire in this instance, as all that will lead to is far more death and destruction and sadness. I guess I'm blindly hoping that we have learned from our numerous lessons of the past to realise that this obliteration of one another is no longer the way to behave.

It's so easy to say, "ban this, forbid that, exclude this..." and then create a less than free state, but that "utopia" won't last. Banning say Islam, or meat or non PC jokes, or making all these things arrestable or deporting people for such things will not solve the problem, but will just throw petrol on the fire. IT may subdue it temporarily, slow it down, but the momentum of another discontentment will ensue and the cycle starts over again.

It's just as easy to say, nuke them all - but who are "them"? We don't even know what this is all about. It's tantamount to bullying really.

Do I think we should be able to make non PC jokes and not be shot for it? Yes of course. Do I think that sometimes people don't think that some things may be hugely hurtful or offensive? Yes. Do I think anything justifies the eradication or killing of people? No definitely not.

Just to make it abundantly clear, I stand in solidarity with my French compatriots towards this act, and find it shocking, saddening and confusing. Do I want blood? No. Do I want to understand and stop this from happening again, yes.
Click to expand...

Should we make even more concessions to appease these people?
 
Above&Beyond said:
You can't ban Islam and I don't think many are suggesting that, but you can crackdown on extremist scholars, their followers and their financial backers. The war on terror will go on as to let ISIS for example take a tighter grip on the middle east is unthinkable. We would only store up bigger problems for later by appeasing them or al-qaeda.
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You can only crack down on them if they break the law, free speech is free speech.
 
elmuzzy66. said:
Maybe have a look at how Japan has dealt with keeping itself out of the crosshairs of jihadists threats?
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By being an alien culture to the rest of the world, not educating the rest of the world on their language, and not attempting to intergrate immigrants at all.
 
elmuzzy66. said:
Maybe have a look at how Japan has dealt with keeping itself out of the crosshairs of jihadists threats?
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Japanese translator of Salmon Rushdie's book was stabbed and killed in 1991... He had insulted the prophet by translating a blasphemous book...

This was before the war on terror, Japan had/has a non interventionist foreign policy. This was just down to a religion that punishes insults towards its prophet with death and followers who believed it was also right they should carry out such a punishment themselves.(that bit is the extremist position, the ideas of death being a punishment within Islamic law in itself isn't)

It is the ideology that is the issue, the more people you have following that ideology they greater the chance of having some amongst them happy to act on the unsavoury bits... Unless/until Islam evolves then we're going to have this clash with freedom of speech (and freedom of religion - apostacy is also a big issue with Islam)
 
Tefal said:
there are lots of things you arnt alowed to say.

hate seach etc among them all that needs is for these things to be broguht udner that,
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Exactly, we already have laws covering it.

Do you think those laws are applied equally without fear or favour?

We have all seen images of muslim men in this country screaming while holding placards with various messages.

We have all seen the police stand there and watch.

Why?
 
spudbynight said:
Can I ask if the same applied to me? I was making what I feel was a legitimate point.
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All the posts I removed were either by Frodo or quoted him.
Your point may have been legitimate so make it again if you like, however the member you were responding to is unlikely to ever take you up on it so don't waste your time speaking to him;)
 
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