Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

Amp34 said:
That is the problem though, it's no more an "Islam" issue than anti homophobia and adultery is a "Christian" issue. Some devout followers of the book of both religions follow it to the letter but that doesn't mean all, or even the majority do. Most Muslims, just like most Christians, are intelligent and free willed enough to realise that some things need to be ignored. I will grant you that more Muslims appear to be for death for apostasy than Christian believing death for adultery (for example) but outside of a few areas it doesn't actually have widespread support, especially in Europe, where it will only be supported by a small minority of Muslims.
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homophobia is an issue within Christianity and some Christian leaders are addressing it, others quite clearly aren't and are preaching hate/intollerance

To say it is a problem between Islam and free speech is wholeheartedly running roughshod over the reality. Yes to the devout followers of the Koran it may be, but much like every other religion most Muslims pick and choose. Rather than being a problem with Islam we need to realise it is actually a problem confined to some Muslims, generally in less developed countries. The same issues can be seen in other religions, Ugandan anti gay laws being a prime example.
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nope - it is reality as per the polls I posted earlier, there is a clear conflict between freedom of speech and Islam even for moderate muslims in the UK

yup there is also a problem in Uganda with anti gay laws

there is also a problem with militant Buddhists in Burma, though it isn't massively relevant to the thread
 
nkata said:
I do not think that this was terrorism, it was a criminal act shooting civilians and taking hostages.

The cause was misguided (radicalised) men believing their religion to have been insulted grievously taking revenge using deadly weapons. Undoubtably criminal.

I do think that there is justification in religious people feeling 'got at' by these cartoon images and to say that they should get over it, get a sense of humour or just ignore it is wrong. There is a need for satire in life and politics, life would be grey without it. To satirise entire beliefs due to the actions of a minority of its adherents is also wrong.

I am not a religious person and cannot envisage a supernatural (above nature) being. There are many who do not share this view, Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus and Buddhists to name a few. I respect everyone's right to have a belief but not to impose this on others if they do not wish it or need it.

We need to have respect without creating laws or covenants which positively or negatively restrict peoples ability to comment, complain or criticize others. No additional laws are required here and one or two recent protections should be repealed in my view. Every person, group, ethnicity, sect, race etc. should have identical protection under UK law

So the criminal act, it was murder and kidnapping, both illegal and if caught, the perpetrators can be tried and found guilty, or as happened here, shot trying to evade capture. No legislation required.

Tweeting, retweeting possibly insulting pictures to show solidarity with abhorrence to these crimes is not a solution, the calm demonstrations of grief in France was far more poignant and effective. In this internet age we need to reign back on the insults a bit and have more consideration for each others point of view however much we may disagree.
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Well said. :)

It's not going to get s good reaction on this forum however...
 
chief barker said:
The trouble with hardline muslims is that because it is by and large a repressive religion our ideals of being free in western countries is not ideal to them hence they bitterly despise and resist it.
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Is no more an oppressive religion than Christianity...
 
Amp34 said:
You really believe that?
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Why not? Sharia patrols have been active in parts of the UK, threatening people for drinking in Muslim areas, or women for showing too much of themselves. If we appease them over drawing cartoons of Mohammed, then there'll just be something else they'll seek to subjugate and dominate us over.
 
Amp34 said:
Is no more an oppressive religion than Christianity...
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How is this a sensible argument in your head?

"oh well it's ok for Dave to be naughty because Steve is too".

some other group being a bag of dicks is not a valid argument or justification for this group also being a bag of dicks.
 
Amnesia said:
again that isn't what my post was saying.
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It does seem to be what your post is saying. You seem to suggesting that appeasement is the way to go because otherwise the people that will take offence will kill people. We effectively give in to their demands because otherwise people will die. Do you realise what sort of world that would eventually make?
 
Xordium said:
Zoomee's gone quiet all of a sudden ...
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Same people talking the same crud - can't 'educate pork' so whats the point? :p

I didn't say they havn't taken the mick out of jews at all - merely provided the proof that when it came to judiasm they even fired their own staff as a result of 'anti-semitic' output as they called it.

Where was your freedom of speech cards then? :rolleyes: It took people to die before you were even remotely interested.

Same old bigots posting the same old rubbish, no need to respond to each and every post naming me, when I know who is here to debate and who is here to push their own uneducated and foolishly bigoted views.

"zomg muslamics gunna take over my world" pure lol worthy and pathetic at the same time. I actually feel sorry for you.

Keep playing into the terrorists hands why don't you.
 
France becomes the first country in the world to ban pro-palestinian protests:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ce-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html

Freedom of speech for all eh?

Interesting that theres been no media mention of this:
But Mr Cazeneuve fears there might be a repeat of the fights between ‘ultra’ Jewish vigilantes and pro-Palestinians which happened after a demonstration last Sunday.
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So there was obviously already some Jewish/pro-palestinian tension in France last week - maybe a precursor to the attacks?

I dunno.
 
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zoomee said:
Same people talking the same crud - can't 'educate pork' so whats the point? :p

I didn't say they havn't taken the mick out of jews at all - merely provided the proof that when it came to judiasm they even fired their own staff as a result of 'anti-semitic' output as they called it.
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This is what you posted:

zoomee said:
Why is it ok for Charlie Hebdo cartoonists/writers to draw cartoons/write articles and belittle the christians and islamic faiths but not the jewish one?
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We provided you with proof that they did indeed draw cartoons to belittle the Jewish faith and rather than post a retraction you have gone on the offensive.

zoomee said:
Where was your freedom of speech cards then? :rolleyes: It took people to die before you were even remotely interested.
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Do you realise just how stupid this sounds? Yes, of course people getting killed is more serious that people getting fired. (Could you actually provide some solid links to that btw as so far your other accusations have proven somewhat unreliable?).

zoomee said:
Same old bigots posting the same old rubbish, no need to respond to each and every post naming me, when I know who is here to debate and who is here to push their own uneducated and foolishly bigoted views.
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Whilst it is very easy to throw around the bigot label at people replying to you could you back this up with something I have posted that is bigoted?
 
Amp34 said:
You really believe that?
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The track record of appeasement hasn't really been great in recent history, but I suppose it could work for a militant faction that are prepared to kill over cartoons as they seem to be a really reasonable bunch. :)
 
zoomee said:
same old rubbish, no need to respond to each and every post naming me, when I know who is here to debate and who is here to push their own uneducated and foolishly bigoted views.
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Strange you said the same in the last thread we crossed paths. I listed exactly what I believed and asked Craterloads and yourself to challenge anything or find any descrepancy between those points and any other posts. I am still waiting.
 
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