Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

RDM said:
The track record of appeasement hasn't really been great in recent history, but I suppose it could work for a militant faction that are prepared to kill over cartoons as they seem to be a really reasonable bunch. :)
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Losers in life that are willing to destroy the very fabric of western civilisation, some people are just too thick to realise how good they've got it. (reposted as it was deleted from the gunship camera post).
 
Tefal said:
How is this a sensible argument in your head?

"oh well it's ok for Dave to be naughty because Steve is too".

some other group being a bag of dicks is not a valid argument or justification for this group also being a bag of dicks.
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See the post below yours for a better argument for what I just said than anything I could write...

vv

Skunkworks said:
...was a thousand years ago.
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zoomee said:
I didn't say they havn't taken the mick out of jews at all - merely provided the proof that when it came to judiasm they even fired their own staff as a result of 'anti-semitic' output as they called it.

Where was your freedom of speech cards then? :rolleyes: It took people to die before you were even remotely interested.
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Right, I have done some digging and found out some more information about this. One of the reasons it may not have been a hot topic is because it happened in 2008 and was very much a local affair. It also turns out to be a bit more than "do anything anti semitic and get fired" but more "do something libellous and refuse to apologise for it and get fired".

The person in question was the cartoonist Sine, but articles I found had the following quote from him "“Yes, I am anti-Semitic and I am not scared to admit it ... I want all Jews to live in fear, unless they are pro-Palestinian. Let them die." Unfortunately I cannot find the full quote so have no idea what context the ellipses might be disguising.
 
dpbadger said:
Looks like he comes out with his hands up.
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Yep, and waving a white flag too ;).
That's the hostage taker, the 4 killed were shot when he arrived at the shop. His body armour must have been pretty good to have taken all those shots and made it to the door. Also easy to see that friendly fire could have injured the officers either side of the door.
 
dowie said:
and to be fair the Quran is a bit more ambiguous on the matter - it is some hadiths that call for death for insulting the prophet... so although it isn't even necessarily an extremist point of view to state that plenty of scholars believe that in an Islamic state the Islamic punishment for insulting the prophet should be death or to point out that plenty of muslims in general - even if they don't want people to be killed for it - do support some punishment for insulting the prophet... there is at least some hope that that viewpoint can change, as it isn't something set in stone in the Quran
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The issue to me seems one of Islamic roots and the modern world. We have lots of muslim communities/countries that have grown up with varying degrees of Sharia Law/Intepretations of Islam, in countries where Sharia Law influences the laws of those countries (to differing degrees), this means that even now, the roots of Islam seem to be in cultures where the line between the laws of the land, and the law of religion are almost one in the same..

Take the UK on the other side, we have had terrible religious control over hundreds of years, but what is markedly different is that society and democracy have been diluting and diminishing religious influence to the point that it has little to no influence on the Laws of this land, and our government is not heavily influenced by any religion when making policies that reflect the wishes of it's people. In fact, as we push for equality and tolerance in law, it undermines religion to the point it has to change (e.g. The treatment of homosexuality)..

Now, whilst I am sure that in this country that the the religion of Islam is taught in a much more diluted version than that in islamic states, however you can't escape the fact that current generations of familes that have come to this country are bringing some Sharia Law baggage with them, which is going to take some time to dilute until it's compatible with the laws of this country and will take generations to dilute, or is it my naivety on the subject, and in fact all Muslims in the UK are happy with our current laws and need no more to support Islam?

Some of the issues I can see being problematic are
1. (As I've replied to) - How can western society deal with the fact we do have a sizeable amount of Muslims who are still being taught that to insult a prophet is a religious crime? Or that they get offended so easily over images of a prophet?
2. How can western society deal with the inequality issues, e.g. Treating women differently? Or Bigamy?
3. What is the current line for westernised Muslims when it comes to leaving their faith? Or their treatment of other faiths?

At the end of the day the terrorists in this thread where from France, all their indoctrination came from some Muslim community within France, one that clearly practices Islam in a way that is very much not compatible with the country, so this is not a case of attacking in any form the Islamic states, it should be about France sorting out it's Islamic communities, which isn't going to go down very well at all..
 
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I didn't mean the terrorist was coming out with his hands up. He was charging with his weapon up. Someone said a hostage was shot at 45 seconds in the video, but you can see them leave with there hands up.
 
dowie said:
it is even more hypocritical than the Saudi's condmening the attacks while also executing blasphemers
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One can condemn murderous attacks whilst supporting the legal process without being hypocritical. I support jail sentences for rapists; I would strongly condemn anyone who imprisoned someone they thought was a rapist without due process.
 
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