And up next on the news at 12, DC wants to ban iMessage and WhatsApp in the UK

thep02 · 15 Jan 2015 at 15:49

If Farage is a pound shop Enoch Powell Camoron is a 99p shop Mussolini.

FishFluff · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:11

scorza said:
It doesn't, it just makes it more difficult by restricting the options open to them. Yes you can come up with an ultra-secure government proof system but in my experience the more secure a system is the less usable it is which increases the likelihood of data leakage, and it's this leakage that is useful to the security services.

So to make things 'more difficult' for criminals you should make something impossible for law abiding citizens? :confused:

Sorry, but I don't find that acceptable and neither would most people.

ubersonic · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:21

FishFluff said:
So to make things 'more difficult' for criminals you should make something impossible for law abiding citizens?

The thing is, law abiding citizens would not be impacted by this. Law abiding citizens use law abiding apps like whatsapp/viber/Facebook/Blackberry/etc. Not the obscure underworld/seedy type of communications platforms being targeted, which would only be sought out by somebody specifically looking for an underworld/seedy communications platform.

In example, back in the day if you wanted to search for something on the internet you would use Lycos/Yahoo/Altavista/etc, if you wanted to search for something illegal you used Astalavista or similar, blocking them would have had 0 effect on law abiding web users.

thep02 · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:34

^ Title of the thread says Div wants to ban whatsapp and imessage.

AGD · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:45

drunkenmaster said:
Today if you are a suspect of a crime your phones may be tapped, mobile phone calls monitored, e-mail checked. Now imagine there is a genuine terror suspect and you need to monitor their communication but you can't because too easily available apps make encrypted, deleted messages available. Now can terrorists write their own app to do the same, sure but it's not that easy. You buy a burner phone and you can download the app off the store currently, preventing that part would make it harder.

It would only make it a miniscule amount harder. All they would have to do is copy an apk from their computer to their phone. Not exactly difficult.

For this meaningless extra difficulty for terrorists, law-abiding everyday folks (including lawyers, doctors, journalists) give up their privacy and let the chinese/russians/americans and anyone else be able to tap their communications.

drunkenmaster said:
When a non genuine target is identified REGARDLESS of what methods of communication are available we should find ways to prevent mass monitoring of innocent people for tenuous links to potential crime of whatever kind.

The ONLY feasible way to prevent mass surveillance is to use encrypted communications which protect both meta and content.

ubersonic · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:51

thep02 said:
^ Title of the thread says Div wants to ban whatsapp and imessage.

That's because title of the thread is based on media sensationalism, we have already established that he wants to do nothing of the sort.

mattyfez · 15 Jan 2015 at 16:59

mattyfez said:
It does no good for preventing terrorism, Escobar or the medelling cartel, and the cali cartel set up thier own phone networks or bought/bribed thier way into existing ones and avoided the cia for years this way. Ok they were super rich so could do as they pleased. This was decades ago and tech has moved on a lot since, providing many more (and much cheaper) sophisticated avenues of covert communication.

What's to say the current terrorists aren't backed by middle eastern oil wealth, either willingly or by threats.

Yeh, ban whatsapp, that'll fix it.

Mark my words, this is not about security, that's just an excuse - this is about big data, data is money.

Hate to quote myself but no one seems to see that this is just a data grab and nothing to do with terrorism , so bulk data can be sold to large companies for whatever analytics they want to perform on it.

If they want to snoop on me fine, but it's £1 per text, £5 per email or instant message, £1000 for a months worth of my shopping habits, or a one off payment of half a million for all you can eat access for a year.

I want my cut, dammit!

FishFluff · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:10

ubersonic said:
The thing is, law abiding citizens would not be impacted by this. Law abiding citizens use law abiding apps like whatsapp/viber/Facebook/Blackberry/etc. Not the obscure underworld/seedy type of communications platforms being targeted, which would only be sought out by somebody specifically looking for an underworld/seedy communications platform.

You mean obscure underworld/seedy type of communications platforms like iMessage which the government can't access? Or PGP which we use at work to send confidential data securely?

It's like cracking down on BitTorrent to eradicate piracy. Encryption has legitimate uses but we can't use them because so could terrorists. It's beyond retarded.

arknor · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:11

Now can terrorists write their own app to do the same, sure but it's not that easy.

Why would they make their own when openPGP is free?
This says "hello"
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (MingW32)
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=Wkby
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

The government can't read it and neither can anyone else who I haven't encrypted it for

see how easy that was?

Just because encryption becomes illegal does not mean terrorists stop using it ffs, terrorism is illegal does it stop it?

The government is as backwards as usual and probably thinks they can just disable it on smart phone apps

OhEsEcks · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:19

That key is tiny. Is it 1024 bit?

Edit: Actually I think it's just the way it's been formatted by VBulletin.

arknor · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:22

OhEsEcks said:
That key is tiny. Is it 1024 bit?

Edit: Actually I think it's just the way it's been formatted by VBulletin.

It's 4096 bit I think the program lets you go higher

Malevolence · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:22

One has to wonder, just how many Muslim terrorists are planning the next atrocity by sending each other pictures of their schlongs?

StriderX · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:24

Malevolence said:
One has to wonder, just how many Muslim terrorists are planning the next atrocity by sending each other pictures of their schlongs?

Dont give them ideas, you terrorist sympathizer D:.

scorza · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:34

FishFluff said:
So to make things 'more difficult' for criminals you should make something impossible for law abiding citizens?

Sorry, but I don't find that acceptable and neither would most people.

What's being made impossible? There'll be ample opportunity for encrypted communications service providers to co-operate with the government.

scorza · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:36

arknor said:
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (MingW32)
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=Wkby
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Aww sorry bruv, I lost me private key again init. Just text it me yeah?

OhEsEcks · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:38

arknor said:
It's 4096 bit I think the program lets you go higher

If somethings worth doing, it's worth doing right (my machine right now)

K1LLSW1TCH · 15 Jan 2015 at 17:42

anticonscience said:
This is my biggest problem. Which idiot do you put in charge for 4 years?

The Green Party! :cool:

thep02 · 15 Jan 2015 at 18:02

ubersonic said:
That's because title of the thread is based on media sensationalism, we have already established that he wants to do nothing of the sort.

In which post was it proven what his stance is regarding whatsapp, not doubting you just want to read it myself.

McBain · 15 Jan 2015 at 18:15

Ban millions of peoples legitimate usage, to stop a few crazies plotting?

What a fantastic idea.

jl10000 · 15 Jan 2015 at 18:41

scorza said:
Slippery slope fallacy.

Not a fallacy at all, the NSA/GCHQ have been caught red handed spying on Merkel and private German companies in what can only be described as industrial espionage. This is a powerful economic weapon, which is why so many private companies and countries have dropped American technology products like a hot potato.