Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

dowie said:
pretty poor example - they still let people get away with honour killings... in fact you can murder your own wife and have your son 'forgive' you then not have to serve time in prison at all

women are second class citizens in Islam
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The majority of the population of an Islamic country voted for a woman to be there prime minister and you think that's a poor example?

The law you mentioned is very rarely implemented and is not used daily or a normal act. I'm not for a moment saying Pakistan gives women the same equivalence as the western world does or that women have the same rights as men but it's not as bad as some people make out.

You are confusing your own interpretation of Islam with the actual reality of how Islam is practised in Muslim countries.

You have different interpretations and different cultures throughout the Muslim world. Then it's up to the people to follow these, for the most part there's no one there to beat you with a stick if you miss a prayer.

Never forget how unique every individual is and his/her own perspective on life.

We are not robots, couples have love for themselves and their children. These feelings we have over ride any religious book or teaching.
 
B&W said:
The majority of the population of an Islamic country voted for a woman to be there prime minister and you think that's a poor example?
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yup and I explained why...

The law you mentioned is very rarely implemented and is not used daily or a normal act.
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so rare that the bloke who's wife was killed in front of the court was a murderer of his first wife himself and got away with it under that law

frankly that is total BS*

I'm not for a moment saying Pakistan gives women the same equivalence as the western world does or that women have the same rights as men but it's not as bad as some people make out.

You are confusing your own interpretation of Islam with the actual reality of how Islam is practised in Muslim countries.
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It is though, I've given you the example already the husband of the woman who was killed in front of the court case was also a murderer himself - he deliberately killed his first wife and was able to use Pakistani Law to get away with it by simply having his own son forgive him... That is as bad as I'm making it out to be and it is a documented example.

*For more examples:

The number of honour killings in Pakistan are estimated to be around 2,500 to 3,000 cases every year. However, the report states that a good number of such cases still go unreported or are passed off as suicides and only 25% of these are brought to justice.

According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), 260 women and 168 men have already been killed in the first eight months of 2008. Honour killings are treated as murder under Pakistan’s penal code; however, the relevant law states that the family of the victim is allowed to compromise with the killer who is a close relative in most of the cases. Provisions of the Pakistani law also allow the next of kin of the victim to forgive the murderer in exchange for money. And most of the offenders continue to use this clause to escape punishment.
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Hardly a rare use of the law:

http://www.irinnews.org/report/70575/pakistan-honour-killings-continue-despite-law

And under Pakistani law, families can escape punishment by following a few simple steps: a brother ‘confesses’ to having killed his sister. His father ‘forgives’ him, or accepts blood money. No money actually changes hands and the matter is closed.

“This is a terrible brutalisation of society. It is outrageous that such crimes take place,” Asma Jahangir, a leading lawyer, rights activist and United Nations rapporteur said.

According to a report prepared by the Karachi-based Aurat Foundation, a non-governmental organisation active in monitoring women’s rights, the largest number of deaths in January, 17, took place in the southern province of Sindh.

In its annual report for 2006, released in February, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) recorded at least 565 cases of honour killings.

Yet the actual number could be significantly higher given that many such deaths - particularly in remote rural areas - are never reported, activists said.
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So yeah I'll stick to my argument - Pakistan is a **** example as far as women's rights are concerned... regardless of electing a female leader.
 
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sityeuropa said:
The guide Islam follows on how to lead your life is full of bad examples which are not fondly thought of in a western society today.

I'm surprised we show the respect for it that we do. I think this is only because nobody has actually read the Quran. Once they do, they would be horrified no doubt.

This is just a quick search. If I'm getting this wrong, please correct. They appear to be quite specific quotes.


“A male shall inherit twice as much as a female.” Quran 4:11,

“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.” Quran 4:34,

“Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses…” Quran 2:282,
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Like iv'e said before you need to read whole chapter, verse etc you can't just grab few quotes as your taking it out of context read this it explains better than I can http://www.islam101.com/women/equity.html
 
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dowie said:
I'm taking about how he treated women - multiple wives + sex slaves...

sure really respected them... even married a child and enjoyed fondling her etc.. - so I guess not only a warlord, mass murderer but also a paedophile - the fact that some people still follow this guy is ridiculous



nope - I've been pretty consistent with citing sources

you can go back to my FGM comment and see the link to the discussion shut down at the UN when representatives from Islamic countries objected to percieved criticism of Islam

if you're unaware of honour killings then see the example in Pakistan where a woman was stoned to death outside a court house... then for added Islamic ridiculousness, we find out that her husband killed his first wife but got away with it because her 'family' - his own son 'forgave him'...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/27/pregnant-pakistani-woman-stoned-to-death

fortunately the killers of this woman will face justice thanks to the international media attention - yet the Islamic element in Pakistani justice is still shown to be a complete joke by the actions of her husband in the first place with his own killing



bit of a reading comprehension issue there from you - I pointed out that ISIS were leading their lives by his example - you've somehow taken ISIS and substituted it with 'all muslims' ???
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FGM pre dates all major religions the first historical documentation of Female circumcision dates back to the writings of Greek geographer Strabo, who visited Egypt around 25 B.C.

Contrary to popular belief this is not a practice that any religious script prescribes.


As for honour killings now where in Quarn does it condone honour killings you can quote Pakistani laws, criminal acts as much as you like. It still does not change the fact that honour killings are a Sin in Islam.
 
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ak22 said:
FGM pre dates all major religions the first historical documentation of Female circumcision dates back to the writings of Greek geographer Strabo, who visited Egypt around 25 B.C.

Contrary to popular belief this is not a practice that any religious script prescribes.
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Did you actually bother to read the posts - I've not claimed FGM is prescribed by Islam. I'm pointing out that percieved criticism of Islam is being used to stifle debate at the UN.

As for honour killings now where in Quarn does it condone honour killings you can quote Pakistani laws, criminal acts as much as you like. It still does not change the fact that honour killings are a Sin in Islam.
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I'm referring to honour killings in Pakistan because another poster decided to use Pakistan as a positive example as they elected a female leader.

Though, if you like, the law helps enable them to take place without repercussion by having another family member pardon them is Islamic.
 
Dowie it's clear from your posts that you really don't know anything about Islam. Please stop talking about it. You're doing more harm than you realise by perpetuating a negative image.
 
Smithy said:
Dowie it's clear from your posts that you really don't know anything about Islam. Please stop talking about it. You're doing more harm than you realise by perpetuating a negative image.
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Let's say for instance he doesn't know anything about it, isn't it better that he has his veiw and someone reply giving him another veiw point than him saying nothing. That's the point of freedom of speech and how we move forward
 
And the discussion continue.

Do you ever think we'll all be able to live in harmony? Is world peace really possible?
 
What truly irritates me about this is the fact that it was not a Muslim who drew it.

I completely understand that it is against Islam and "blasphemous" to draw a picture or representation of the prophet Muhammad but the writers of Charlie Hebdo are not Muslim. Therefore they are not bound by the rules set out in the faith of Islam.

By the same token, extremists should get just as angry about non Muslims eating pork or non halal meat or not following any other of the Muslim laws and traditions.

This was a French publication, and the picture was drawn by French people who were not Muslim. I therefore fail to see what they did wrong, even in the eyes of extremist Muslims.

Essentially, the extremists believe that the whole world should abide by Islamic laws.
 
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