Greece Elections

platypus said:
Why would you want a currency to devalue even further, affecting hundreds of millions of people - the effects of which are not restricted to Euro users?
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Because it makes stuff cheaper when on holiday, and also I buy quite a bit of stuff online from German & Dutch websites. So in my own selfish way, a strong Pound of weak Euro benefits me :p.
 
platypus said:
A pretty thoughtless and selfish comment then. I thought so.
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A bit harsh, currency markets are always fluctuating, so it's just natural for someone to be happier when at one point it fluctuates in their benefit, that hardly means they are wishing ill upon others.

Hell, take your ire out on currency speculators rather than someone happy their own £ is going to stretch a little further.
 
Freakbro said:
A bit harsh, currency markets are always fluctuating, so it's just natural for someone to be happier when at one point it fluctuates in their benefit, that hardly means they are wishing ill upon others.

Hell, take your ire out on currency speculators rather than someone happy their own £ is going to stretch a little further.
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Yeah on reflection you're right, ...apologies Westyfield.
 
scorza said:
Why not? That's how private companies grow - it's called investment. Typically this investment is recouped over a number of years, so increasing your deficit by 5% to gain an extra 1% growth a year for the next 15 years would be a good solution.
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And thats the problem, most governments do not invest it, they use it for a purpose that will NOT generate any long term growth, just short term "growth" thats fuelled by consumption.

E.g £100 spent on welfare, may be spent in the shops on say some consumer good, that demonstrates "growth", but if the majority of that £100 goes to pay a foreign supplier for goods produced its lost to the country it was spent in.
If a company invests £100 in a piece of productive equipment, its fuelled real growth as its been spent and its added to the capability of that company to produce more goods over a number of years.

There was far more benefit in the £100 welfare when we produced most of our own goods as it recirculated around the economy creating multiples of growth, that pretty much doesn't happen any more. Global economy changes the rules from an isolated economy.

"Growth" as expressed currently is a terrible measure, used to smoke and mirrors confuse the general public. Its really consumption and if you say you've borrowed money to fuel consumption you get a better idea how its not going to fix anyones economy.
 
platypus said:
How exactly is Syriza going to solve this though? They don't seem to have anything credible at all, just a slogan that they're going to end Greek Austerity.
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Magic I suppose, no really. I don't know dude, this is a question that even their supporters can't figure the answer, a common sense party is missed big time
 
I don't get it.

So the Greeks have voted in a guy/party whose sole promise is to end austerity. In a country with massive national debt, high unemployment and with a few very large bailouts under their belts. He has been elected to re-negotiate repayment of said debts, and is looking to have half the amount written off.

I'll be pretty angry if he manages to write off debt, and maybe if he does achieve it, I'll ring up my bank and ask them to halve my mortgage just because.
 
bloodiedathame said:
I'll be pretty angry if he manages to write off debt, and maybe if he does achieve it, I'll ring up my bank and ask them to halve my mortgage just because.
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What Greece is doing is basically getting an IVA as they have unaffordable debts. So yes, if you were in similar circumstances, you could go through a similar process.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
What Greece is doing is basically getting an IVA as they have unaffordable debts. So yes, if you were in similar circumstances, you could go through a similar process.
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But why this guy? Surely the other parties would have offered to initiate the same talks, I mean it's not exactly a small issue?

Just seems a bit, dare I say, lazy? Or perhaps they're the smart ones, playing the game? The same could apply to help with a mortgage, A) work harder to pay it off B) Apply for IVA.

I'm probing for answers here rather than giving an opinion, as I don't know enough about any of this to form one properly.*
 
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they've essentially consolidated their debts....

Problem is that to increase spending again when you've only just got things under control is a bit risky, it might not be very sustainable and the people who helped you out with generous low cost loans when everyone else was going to charge you high interest rates might not be so willing to help out if you get into trouble again....

while an individual can have an IVA and be ok in a few years it can have quite a nasty effect on countries - see Argentina for example
 
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scorza said:
Why not? That's how private companies grow - it's called investment. Typically this investment is recouped over a number of years, so increasing your deficit by 5% to gain an extra 1% growth a year for the next 15 years would be a good solution.
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Any business that borrows to fund operational expenditure, as opposed to capital expenditure, is not going to be around for very long.

The government (past and present) hasn't borrowed to invest for the future, they have borrowed to pay the bills now, which is a totally different argument.
 
silvagti said:
I doubt the EU has much room for negotiation when it could open the floodgates for other countries like Ireland, Spain and Italy to ask for similar deals though?
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this is why I can see Greece not getting a deal at all. If the EU concedes to Greece's new government then they have to also give a restructured deal to Spain and Ireland who have been equally hard pressed.

This is going to be a large scale game of chicken to see who will swerve first. On the one hand Greece's new government want to be seen to hold firm, on the other hand the EU who will literally be opening a massive pandora's box that will never be closed................

Syriza, as all parties soon discover (i.e Lib Dems) will completely fail to live up to any of the wild promises they were voted in on and will be voted out at the next opportunity by the Greek public. There is no way the government of a tin pot country will be allowed to hold the entire EU fiscal programme to ransom......................
 
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