That plane footage from Taiwan

mattyg · 4 Feb 2015 at 18:02

[TW]Fox;27583742 said:
Either way, it's completely irrelevant as is your point whilst you continue to refuse to consider probability.

I mean yes, go on then, to answer your question I'd rather be in a car about to crash on a motorway than onboard a Boeing 777 about to be hit by a missile during the cruise phase of the flight but what is the relevance of this answer? It tells us nothing about the relative safety of either form of transport.

There you go AGAIN. Completely ignoring what I had originally wrote and the original context in which it was written.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27581285&postcount=8

In response to

Kelt said:
Unbelievable foot age. I love air travel, but every time I get on a plane, I'm aware should anything go wrong, there's little chance of survival.

I wrote

mattyg said:
If you have a car accident then their is a small chance you'll die
If you have a plane crash their is a small chance you'll live.

Is what i've written wrong?

Akagi · 4 Feb 2015 at 18:49

I don't want to fly using any Asian airline...

Tefal · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:20

[TW]Fox;27581809 said:
Try crashing a car head on at 70mph.

how often can you even get into that situation though.

short of doing 70 in a 3o, theres generally not many stationary obstacles to hit in the aeras you can do 70.

[TW]Fox · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:22

Tefal said:
how often can you even get into that situation though.

short of doing 70 in a 3o, theres generally not many stationary obstacles to hit in the aeras you can do 70.

Very easily, try any NSL single carriageway road where a head on crash will be at a closing speed of circa 120mph :confused:

Akagi · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:33

You did word it as though the car you are in is going 70MPH into another car, not that 70MPH is the combined speed.

chaparral · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:48

Tefal said:
how often can you even get into that situation though.

short of doing 70 in a 3o, theres generally not many stationary obstacles to hit in the aeras you can do 70.

Unless your like me who fails to notice sometimes that am riding on the wrong side of the road in france till a car/lorry/motorbike comes from the other way ... :eek:

[TW]Fox · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:52

Acme said:
You did word it as though the car you are in is going 70MPH into another car,

Because that's what I meant. There are roads all over the country where you could find this to be the case - pretty much any NSL A road, as said above.

not that 70MPH is the combined speed.

It wasn't.

Feef · 4 Feb 2015 at 19:56

Acme said:
I don't want to fly using any Asian airline...

...Really? Should be noted that another Taiwanese carrier, EVA, was ranked 3rd safest in the world this year. Also the only airline to have ever bumped me to business class, so have a soft spot for them

Unsurprisingly, this has been the only thing on the news all day. Though, that mostly served to make me dislike the media here even more, as it's just repeated shots of the plane coming down, broken up by zoomed close ups of grieving relatives and mobs of reporters waiting outside hospitals - not for news of injuries, just to catch another shot of a distraught family member. It's sickeningly distasteful.

ReltonBFD · 4 Feb 2015 at 20:00

Unreal footage , literally seems like a stone falling from the sky !

StriderX · 4 Feb 2015 at 20:03

Starting to seriously wonder whats going on in Asian planes...

Iraklis F.C. · 4 Feb 2015 at 20:43

it looks like the left wing stalled, and plunged from the sky. if the left engine malfunctioned then that could explain this accident but it shouldnt bring down a plane, these ATR's can land safely with one engine.

Leeroy Jenkins · 4 Feb 2015 at 21:34

Iraklis F.C. said:
it looks like the left wing stalled, and plunged from the sky. if the left engine malfunctioned then that could explain this accident but it shouldnt bring down a plane, these ATR's can land safely with one engine.

Ye it most likely stalled as it's literally just fell from the sky, maybe it had double engine failure? Which i know is almost unheard of in aviation but what else could make the plane stall?

Possibly the pilots were distracted with a problem in the plane and lost focus on their air speed that is the only other alternative i can think of.

It really looks like something out of a movie i have to say, it really just doesn't seem real looking at it. At least there was survivors which is always nice to hear sad for the families to lose lose ones in an air accident.

neil_g · 4 Feb 2015 at 21:42

Bickering aside :rolleyes:

Saw the video this morning and sent cold shivers down me. Horrible.

I saw they got the recorders out already so hopefully some facts will come out soon.

RIP to those that didn't make it..

DJMK4 · 4 Feb 2015 at 21:42

Apparently reports of a "mayday mayday mayday engine flameout" being called by pilot to air traffic control

adam cool dude · 4 Feb 2015 at 21:54

Did the people in the car survive? That will be something to tell the grand children if they did.

Sindri · 4 Feb 2015 at 21:59

Looks to me as if he deliberately banked left to miss the electricity pylon / power lines. Which would make sense as hitting them while fully fuelled would've been probably the worst thing he do.

Feef · 4 Feb 2015 at 22:02

The taxi driver did at least, reports that he fainted at the moment the plane struck, and is in hospital, but talking. There were shots of him getting out of the vehicle and checking the boot, then moving to the side of the road.

Early reports said his passenger was also ok, but not heard much on that since. Loads of conflicting stories.

squerble · 4 Feb 2015 at 22:17

Looks like a left wing stall just before they hit the motorway. It looks like it's going too slow even with wings level and the pilot has tried to stretch the glide a little further. Left wing drops below Vmca (minimum speed a plane has "control" in take-off configuration). I can't tell properly from the footage but I can't help but think the left prop isn't feathered properly but this would certainly contribute to problems. The right wing, even with the slow airspeed, still has a little "auxiliary" lift due to the fact the prop is spinning and pushing some air over the wing. The flight data suggests it's barely at 81kts groundspeed around the time of the dashcam footage which is just too slow and certainly points to dropping below Vmca and the left wing stalls first.

For info, when a prop is feathered, the blades are at the minimum angle possible into the oncoming air from forward velocity. If props don't/aren't feathered, they remain in the operational range and they become a HUGE drag, and that isn't a good thing with an engine out. I don't know enough about the ATR systems to say if they have auto-feather at all stages of flight, whether it's automatic arming or part of a manual process.

FunkyCowie · 4 Feb 2015 at 22:18

I think the pilots managed really well getting the plane to ditch in the water at what ever angle, sacrificing their life in the process. Having spent significant time in Taipei in various points of my life I can honestly say the death toll would have been a hell of a lot higher due to the population density if the plane had crashed on land.

The only surviving crew member of this flight, an air stewardess, luckily dodged the previous crash involving an aircraft with this company several months ago by switching shift with a co-worker.

Iraklis F.C. · 4 Feb 2015 at 22:22

Sindri said:
Looks to me as if he deliberately banked left to miss the electricity pylon / power lines. Which would make sense as hitting them while fully fuelled would've been probably the worst thing he do.

its a possibility but that would be an unbelievable show of skills from the pilots and i dont think thats the case. Its a miracle we have survivors