Terrorist Attack in Copenhagen, Denmark
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yeah, Castiel must've read a different interview....
not to mention that he says what I have said, namely that islam needs a reform movement.
Not at all, but I have read and listened to quite a bit by the person being interviewed by Der Speigel.
Ironically what Islam needs is unified direction, what he actually says, and is a common theme in his writing is that Islam needs to look back to look forward, and remove itself (in the countries he mentions) from the Theology of Violence that they developed under the latter ottoman rule and subsequent breakup of the Caliphate. Not everyone agrees with all of Aslan's opinions, for example he believes that ISIS is a legitimate organisation based on what he terms a Contract of War to create a Caliphate, not many of his compatriots agree with this and is somewhat controversial. It fits with your position I suspect however although I doubt you would like his solution very much, certainly some in thread wouldn't.
If you read more by Adnan Aslan, you would understand his perspective better than trying to do so based on a poorly translated interview for a German newspaper though and that his main concern is promoting Muslim education in Austria.
And you are right, reform is necessary...and this begins with organisations such as Al Ahzar speaking out and denouncing acts of barbarism done in the name of Islam, but which you said, "so what!" to.
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Increasingly so. We see the example today and in recent months, more and more people are speaking out against ISIS and their tactics being justified. Particularly in the aftermath of the death of the Jordanian Pilot.
Something about a horse and the stable door.
cool, can you recommend me any of Mr.Aslans writings?
Thanks Castiel, believe or not I actually understand german and read the interview in Der Spiegel.
what I meant by the 'so what' was that both insist that their interpretation of Islam is the correct one. 'So what' if Al A denounces it, it still is justified in Islamic teaching, which Aslan has confirmed and you have confirmed, thank you.
Anyway, recommend me something by Islamic scholars or professors so I can educate myself (more).
It needs to be done from the inside...like Christianity it will and is in fact currently going through a schism.
Which just illustrates a fundamental issue with many people's attitudes. If no one can support those when they do attempt to oppose such acts then nothing will change.
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How is that happening right now?
Look around. We have various theological and political disputes within Islam, a fractured and ineffective form of authority that has virtually been non existent since the beginning of the 20th Century. We have increasing separation between Islamist groups, we see some groups attempting to legitimatise themselves, others going even further into barbarism. Puritanism v liberalism. The problem is that Christianity had a clericalism which Islam lacks, ironically this is something that Prof Aslan, who you relied upon earlier blames on Western countries not accepting Islam as a legitimate partner in the State apparatus.
ISIS is probably creating an environment in which many influential Muslim authorities are now questioning both themselves and the groups they support in furtherance of their own political ambitions. We shall see.
Recommended further reading?
cool, can you recommend me any of Mr.Aslans writings?
Most of what he writes is specifically for education in Austria. Islam and Integration and Muslimas Theology are two I would recommend as being more broad in their context.
If you see the context in which Aslan teaches you would understand that what he promotes is not quite as simplistic as the articles limitations imply. I tried to explain a little background to add some context to the article.
Again, whilst Aslan does indeed hold an opinion that actions such as those committed by ISIS can be justified within the Quran, I and others like me don't necessarily agree with all his conclusions on the historical or theological acceptance of certain Hadith and Quranic interpretations being entirely supportable or historically valid. The use of apostasy in the case of the Jordanian Pilot for example has no such precedent despite Aslan referencing it.
Anyway, recommend me something by Islamic scholars or professors so I can educate myself (more).
What I am reading right now is quite interesting. Misquoting Mohammed, by Jonathan AC Brown, another recommended book would be Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices by Andrew Rippin. I would also read No God but God by Reza Aslan.
Otherwise I would just recommend reading a broad range of literature, both from a pro and anti Islamic positions and across the spectrum of Islamic schools. It is difficult to sometimes to understand just what the Quran is saying when not read in Arabic, translations often lose something of it's poetry and context, So "The Quran Interpreted" by Arthur J Arberry Is what I recommend as being probably the closest you will get, it can be a little confusing, but other than learning Arabic it's probably the best translation available.
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More difficult to recommend specific titles, I would research the Shia-Sunni history, the Ottoman fall, the rise of Islamism in the 19th Century, the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, the colonisation of the Middle East to gain some grounding in how I form my opinion.
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More supposition. You have about as much evidence for that as your claims about MI5.
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The Chinese. 30 seconds after IS try any of their signature crap on Chinese soil.
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You're trying to downplay terrorism that is becoming an almost weekly atrocity and now you're claiming Muslim authorities are 'questioning themselves' with no evidence at all. It's the tactics of an apologist.
And what claims about MI5 would they be?
I think you are getting confused.
I don't think you even know what the words you use actually mean. In any case, you are entitled to your opinion, whatever informs it, or not as the case may be.
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You boiled down the work of MI5 etc to pouncing on folk who chattered vague statements about terror. Again just attempting to downplay the threat and supposition that you know better than the head of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ with no evidence to back it up.
What evidence is there that Muslim authorities are questioning themselves? It's more wishful thinking on your part.
Like I said I think you are confused. I did not say anything about MI5 et al.
Do you not read?