Unemployed yoof to pick up litter in return for benefits...

[CREATIVE!11]

Pay them minimum wage to do this and fair enough

I've always advocated making people work for their benefits....

It's such a simple solution yet the government constantly keep pushing this agenda involving full time placements for benefits.

There is always another motive and it's probably financial gain.

Turn the poor/jobless into a commodity and you've got yourself a nice little money maker.

So I see rather than climbing down off your soapbox you merely bent down a bit so you could hear but couldn't be bothered what happened to the lower orders anyway.

LOL!

 

[thep02]

If there's going to be unemployed people it's surely better that it's those that are happiest or best suited to that state rather than people desperately looking for what work is available.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

A graduate is not a student though. They have their qualification and are applying for a job that they will leave asap which means more time and money spent hiring. The student isn't going to leave any time soon.

I didn't say they are. Students are an example of typically uncommitted staff because everyone knows they will be looking for other work the moment they have qualified. And yes, students will be leaving "any time soon."

 

[Kotu]

Having people work for nothing for the council is no different to having people working for nothing for a business, there will still be someone higher up the food chain that will be making extra profit from not properly employing people on adequate wages.

Army training would work much better as it would actually show these people what they are capable of rather than just humiliating them.

 

[Luckystrike123]

I am in favour of something like this, but I don't see why it is limited to 18-21 y/o.

It should apply to any able bodied person!!

 

[Uther]

Seems fair but they need to be careful not to put further people out of jobs such as existing street cleaners etc.

Surely this is exactly what will happen, considering most councils are having their budgets cut...

 

[dowie]

Which is a key point.

If I became unemployed for any reason I'd have difficulty getting 'any job' - all my experience is within a technical specialist field, I can't omit all my work experience from my CV (as they would just assume I'd been in prison). Including my actual experience would show instantly that it was nothing more than a filling job & may exclude me from the selection criteria.

it isn't that hard to tailor an application and/or keep some experience vague or omitted - then again as your work experience/skill set increases then (unless you're in an very specialist area) it shouldn't be hard to find work within your skill set

I got a boring sales job by responding to an ad on gumtree once when I was in between roles a few years ago - actually paid reasonably well with commission etc..

these days I've been working for several years so going for a few months between jobs wouldn't be an issue if I were suddenly made redundant or suffered an accident etc..

 

[CREATIVE!11]

But some people are always going to be the worst at interviews, have the worst qualifications, the least attractive (this statistically goes against people very strongly in interviews) or have the least experience.

It doesn't take long for a person with some bad luck to go from bottom of the pile to unemployable. I'm not saying for a second we should just leave people on the scrap heap of life, not contributing or anything.

Just we should use rational evidenced based tactics to determine the best method of resolving these social problems. The traditional 'stick' approach doesn't work (for one you can put punitive measures on people till the cows come home, but if there are not enough jobs it's a massive waste of time & the taxpayers money to attempt to fix it without addressing the actual causes).

If this was any other field, the first thing a group does is; understand the problem -> Understanding the specifics -> Create a solution -> Test the solution -> Evaluate the solution -> repeat (until a tested solution is found) -> Deploy a solution.

In politics it tends to be - find a problem -> Deploy a solution.

This is insane.

Very well said.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. This is not just an issue of people finding jobs it runs far deeper. A lot of the long term unemployed have a host of issues keep them from finding work and those issues come from a variation of sources. Poor upbringing, influences etc

It's a VERY HARD problem to solve admittedly, but beating a dead horse with a stick for the 1000th time is making no difference so when will the government learn? at the end of the day I think they do most of this for votes. The average person on the street watches benefits street (which is sensationalised garbage), gets riled up and then focus on it so the government just deliver what people want. It won't fix any real problems.

Surely this is exactly what will happen, considering most councils are having their budgets cut...

This already did happen. The RSPCA were making use of claimants sent on mandatory work placements and then promptly laid off some of their paid staff and filled the hours with people from the job centre.

 

[lemonade]

Retailers hire more students than any other industry, so that point about not hiring uncommitted staff is claptrap.

Yes they will hire you as a student to cover shifts, pay you the lowest wages, but when your a graduate the prospects are completely different, your not a student anymore, your a qualified skilled person looking to get into a career, so they dont want someone who might be on the job for 2 weeks only to bugger off for another job.

 

[lemonade]

I didn't say they are. Students are an example of typically uncommitted staff because everyone knows they will be looking for other work the moment they have qualified. And yes, students will be leaving "any time soon."

Actually students make good staff for these roles, they fill up the shifts, paid the lowest wages and they are not going to leave anytime soon either, because you know during the application period what they are doing and for how long from their CV's and generally they stay after they finish studies because typically a graduate doesn't get a job straight after they finish their course.

 

[Efour]

balky12 were you from Romford way ?

Also lol @ this thread took the "junk food" direction i thought i was in the wrong one for a while.

 

[drakioned]

But some people are always going to be the worst at interviews, have the worst qualifications, the least attractive (this statistically goes against people very strongly in interviews) or have the least experience.

It doesn't take long for a person with some bad luck to go from bottom of the pile to unemployable. I'm not saying for a second we should just leave people on the scrap heap of life, not contributing or anything.

Just we should use rational evidenced based tactics to determine the best method of resolving these social problems. The traditional 'stick' approach doesn't work (for one you can put punitive measures on people till the cows come home, but if there are not enough jobs it's a massive waste of time & the taxpayers money to attempt to fix it without addressing the actual causes).

If this was any other field, the first thing a group does is; understand the problem -> Understanding the specifics -> Create a solution -> Test the solution -> Evaluate the solution -> repeat (until a tested solution is found) -> Deploy a solution.

In politics it tends to be - find a problem -> Deploy a solution.

This is insane.

There's classes of people who have no interest in understanding the problem, understanding the problem would involve having to admit responsibility in being part of the problem (if only to themselves), and they'd prefer not to understand.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

The anger in you is incredible.

I don't hate people on the dole, why don't you read some of my posts? I am talking about those who are long term unemployed. For this topic 6months+. Here is an actual view of mine:

I'm not angry, and I admit I've probably overly picked out your posts to make my point about peoples situations.

It's not particularly to do with you but more in a general sense.

I could have easily used myself. I was raised by parents who cared (Sometimes I wasn't grateful enough), went to uni etc etc.

I was lucky and fortunate.

 

[elmarko]

People are also forgetting that long term unemployment has tripped from 200,000 to 600,000 since 2004.

Are people under the illusion that 'laziness' has tripped or perhaps the part the underline reduction in jobs due to the global recession has more to play in the matter.

It's reasonable to assert from this that 2/3 of the sub-set of the long term unemployed (which is only a portion of the total JSA claimants) are actually genuine (external factors as opposed to behavioural).

Leaving 200,000 with a percentage being related to either intentional unemployment, being unemployable or other factors (all of which require different solutions).

http://www.cesi.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Long-term unemployment 2012.pdf

edit - while the 300% increase is part related to switch from long term inactive to JSA - the figure of 200% may be more accurate.

"Long-term unemployment has more than doubled since 2008 and young people
have been hit the hardest, with a 145% increase"

 

[drakioned]

People are also forgetting that long term unemployment has tripped from 200,000 to 600,000 since 2004.

Are people under the illusion that 'laziness' has tripped or perhaps the part the underline reduction in jobs due to the global recession has more to play in the matter.

There are people here who have expressed a view that poverty is largely a choice, that landing a job and an significant income is available to all so long as they try.

 

[Above&Beyond]

I didn't say they are. Students are an example of typically uncommitted staff because everyone knows they will be looking for other work the moment they have qualified. And yes, students will be leaving "any time soon."

There is little chance of a student doing a 2, 3 or 4 year course leaving 'soon'. The same cannot be said about a graduate who could leave the next day as they are vastly over qualified for the role which means you could either be left in the lurch or have to spend more time and money rehiring.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Retailers are constantly (re)hiring. Constantly. It is their BAU to be doing so. Staff regularly change retail jobs for other retail jobs when they have had enough as well. It's not just onto post-graduate jobs that they leave.

 

[thep02]

There's already similar schemes in place, but they are all a sham, as they are outsourced to "training and careers" companies, who get paid by the government, they make loads of dosh but actually give nothing in return.

The motto of all British govts is "Be seen to be doing stuff" that's it don't worry if you achieve anything but be seen to be doing stuff.

 

[mmj_uk]

What about all of the workers currently employed to do these job? redundancies ahoy! the Tories seem to be intent on giving state funded labour to every sector and it's just going to cause less jobs and more unemployment, but I'm sure they have plenty more 'work for your benefits' type schemes in the pipeline for those their policies make unemployed.

 

[Zenduri]

Looks like the tories have made their point

I'm not saying all 18-21 yr odls are wasters but there is a large number of people in that age group that doss about on the freebies. Having come from a high unemployment area where this particular age group were a major issue and drain I am in favour of anything that get the wasters working.

In my home town we have a term for them.. TWOFS.. Total Waste Of Floor Space. Was extremely common to see these people dossing about in the day Dole Dossing or Twoffing about the place for years on end.