Any investment bankers here?

I can see the attraction of investment banking when you're young. Let's be honest, it's mainly about the money.

However, let's just take trading. Ultimately, all you are doing is sitting behind a screen and trying to watch for opportunities to make money for your own gain. It does not contribute that much to society or the advancement of the human species. Some areas of investment banking are very harmful to society and the planet.

Other careers will offer greater benefits to society, greater personal satisfaction and better lifestyle. Personally I think it is a little unfortunate that many of the brightest people in the UK focus solely on what jobs they can do to make the most money. There is more to life.

Rgds
 
A good example of how detrimental modern finance can be to society is when Enron traders were manipulating energy prices in the US. On the other side of their trade were old people getting their electricity supply cut off.

Just providing some balance.

Rgds
 
misteranonimous said:
Sadly money is a factor that most people would take into account for a job.
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I would say it's an extremely important factor to take into account, but not the most important factor.

Let's say you undertake a career working in M&A in an investment bank. You will be working 12 to 14 hour days in a high stress environment. You might love it, that's great. However, a lot of people will find the hours become rather taxing, and rather life consuming, and the job will become unfulfilling. There is zero point earning a lot of money if you don't enjoy your lifestyle. Earning a lot of money will not bring you happiness. Lack of money causes unhappiness, earning a lot of money does not necessarily bring happiness.

I also think that it is a shame that many of Britain's brightest minds are seduced by the financial sector, which in my view is not particularly beneficial to society as a whole. These people could contribute better in industry, engineering, medicine or science. They will probably have a more enjoyable lifestyle too.

Rgds
 
misteranonimous said:
Sadly money is a factor that most people would take into account for a job.
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radderfire said:
A good example of how detrimental modern finance can be to society is when Enron traders were manipulating energy prices in the US. On the other side of their trade were old people getting their electricity supply cut off.

Just providing some balance.

Rgds
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I'm just thinking about it, since I have a load of options to me and of course I would like to make some money, but I wouldn't sell my soul for it. Just exploring my options :)
 
Investment banking in itself is probably not what you want, you will likely enjoy areas such as derivative trading, quant analyst, statistical arbitrage .



After my PhD I joined a high tech startup, it has it highs and lows, but I'm slowly pushing to be a quant trade, potentially high freq trading, in part due to the market location I ended up in.
 
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D.P. said:
Investment banking in itself is probably not what you want, you will likely enjoy areas such as derivative trading, quant analyst, statistical arbitrage .



After my PhD I joined a high tech startup, it has it highs and lows, but I'm slowly pushing to be a quant trade, potentially high freq trading, in part due to the market location I ended up in.
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That does sound more attractive since I am mathematically inclined :p but it sounds derivative trading and being a quant both require PhDs?

I think I'll be looking at the route of getting a Msc and then some experience in some statistical or other finance roles, then trying to wiggle my way in?
 
If you're working at an investment bank, you are there for the money. I made a decision to go into it for a few years to get some money in the bank, did six years, stashed a lotta cash, then got out back into a job I actually cared about.

Tbh if your maths is good I would look into the technical side. It's the IT geeks that really make banks work, the money is very good, reliable, the hours are sensible and you're mostly insulated from rest of the BS that comes with investment banks.
 
Ohnoezfail said:
That does sound more attractive since I am mathematically inclined :p but it sounds derivative trading and being a quant both require PhDs?

I think I'll be looking at the route of getting a Msc and then some experience in some statistical or other finance roles, then trying to wiggle my way in?
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traders don't tend to have PhDs, quant roles do often ask for them these days but generally the jobs asking for them don't really require them - very few quants are doing original research

there are other quantitative roles - quant developer, roles in risk etc..

you probably need to have a bit more of a read about roles in general - at the start of the thread you wanted to be an investment banker which is a very different role

take a browse through places like these and you'll maybe get a better idea:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/ (warning this one does have a few posters with dubious attitudes/egos... plenty of whom I'd suspect are just students)

these are more quant related, probably worth a look through since you're a maths/physics student:

https://www.quantnet.com/

http://www.wilmott.com/
 
To add this is also the classic situation you get into when you want to get into banking and all the focus is landing a front office role.

There are many other great rewarding roles in other functions of the bank, especially middle office. I worked in trading (origination) for a bit and now work in a risk function. The financial rewards are still excellent if you are a high performer when you get into the management levels.

The best way to get in is referral.
 
Thanks everyone, I'll be doing a lot more research in the future and just trying to setup a placement in a general finance sector for now, i.e. accounting firms or small banks. :)
 
Ohnoezfail said:
Thanks everyone, I'll be doing a lot more research in the future and just trying to setup a placement in a general finance sector for now, i.e. accounting firms or small banks. :)
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a placement in a retail bank or accountancy firm isn't likely to help you much
 
to give you an idea of what a typical investment banker does:

-Advisory (typically within M&A or Mergers and Acquisitions)
As an investment banker, you're not what's called a 'principal' or in other words, the party that is acquiring the asset or company. You are what is referred to as 'sell side'. You will typically be either corporate finance focused or industry focused.

Corporate finance is all about accounting and financing, raising debt and equity through either leveraged finance (corporate loans) or project finance (structured loans backed against assets)

Industry focused or advisory is more about helping companies make strategic moves. In other words analysing markets, industries, companies and recommending a course of action for a company to take. Now this can either be solicited (where a company approaches you with a specific strategy in mind and asks you to vet it) or unsolicited (where you might be aware of an opportunity for particular companies to move on). In both cases, there is a tremendous amount of pitching to be done. This is often the reason why investment bankers are referred to as 'pitch book monkeys'. In a bull market they all think they're CEO's, and in a bear market they'd be lucky to get an audience with a janitor.

As an analyst you can expect 8am-midnight 7 days a week for 2-3 years. As an associate you expect 8am-midnight 7 days a week for 2-3 years. As a Vice President you can expect 8am-midnight 7 days a week. This is why most ppl in investment banking burn out after 3-5 years or move on to a principal if they're good enough to get hand picked.

Analyst, Associate, VP, Director are all execution roles. Managing Director is more of a relationship role at that point. Your job as an MD would be to bring in business, determine how best to deploy resources and be responsible for the team's P&L.

To be honest with you, the money isn't there anymore in investment banking. It used to be 100-250 a year for analysts and multiples higher for associates and VPs and above. Nowadays, its just a burn out.

In principal roles (the companies you'd be pitching to when you're an investment banker) it's slightly better as you get to invest the money and co-invest in those investments so if you've done it well, you'll make money as the company does. It is called 'carry'. However, as you can imagine, this is the most competitive level of the industry and only the very cream of the crop are selected for these roles and if you're not in it for the long run (i.e. Director/MD) there is no point as it is all work, no play and your skill set will be highly highly specialised and therefore the only other things you can do are other private equity/investment banking roles and the way it works is upward only so you're only as good as your last **** up.

As someone who's been in the industry for 7 years and is now principal, I'll say this. If I could go back I'd do something else.
But to answer the other part of your question as to what advice I would give for someone considering this career: Have thick skin, be prepared to take a lot of **** and smile about it and say thanks can I have more. Unfortunately, it is not an industry where keeping your head and doing your work goes a long way. It's much more political than that and you absolutely must be politically savvy. If pride is an issue for you, move on because it will be tested daily for years and it never stops, not even at MD level.

Best of luck in your choice
 
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I was an assistant actuary for 3 years with asset finance for a further two. I hated it. It was full of plebs.
 
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Im not a banker, but I work into the banking sector and many of my friends are investment bankers and fund managers, some of them very wealthy, most of them doing well, some not so well. Not something I would want to do and it has changed a lot in the 25 years or so I've been working within the FinServ sector, but there are still opportunities to earn significant money (7-8 figures) if you are very good but its very hard and stressful until you get up to the top of the layer cake, most of who actually never do.
 
might be better than nothing, or might end up being pretty irrelevant and a waste of time

you need to figure out what it is you actually want to do and then start looking at things you could do that might be useful in regards to that
 
I don't think there are "semi-target" universities, you're either at a target or you are not.

As a grad you get in by networking, proving knowledge, being interesting, and proving dedication.

The guys you see at universities who are a member of every finance society, and do nothing but talk about IB, don't tend to get in or go far. If they seem dull as dishwater to you, they will seem so to the interviewers, and won't get in.

Aside from that, you want to aim for an internship, as this is where most of grad hiring comes from. You do this by acing the online tests, applying very very early in the process, and by knowing people on the inside to reference in the application.

To do that, you need to be attending every damned IB event at your university, or at other universities if they don't bother with you. Speak to the people who come personally, get their names and business cards (speaking before the event is usually better than after), email them and establish contact. You can use these to find out about the company internally, what they are really looking for in the applications, and when applications actually open online so you can get in on day 1.
Most banks now do 1-2 day taster events in easter time. Get on these and use them to help you internship application.

Me and friends did the above, graduated as the financial crash hit (similar degrees to you, target uni) and I got an offer for IT in IB (no finance internship), other friends got onto internships and were offered jobs - but turned them down because the work-life balance sucks, a few others went in, and basically spent their time looking to get out onto the buy side as soon as possible.

Also, when you actually get an internship, work your socks off. One friend did two internships at a major bank and didn't get an offer from anywhere. He now works for Apple.
 
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