D3D12 articles - so much misunderstandings and miscommunications

SiDeards73 · 25 Feb 2015 at 10:31

Gregster said:
Yep and if anyone thinks that DX12 games will come flooding out, they will be mistaken. With the Xbone using DX12 as well, this should help speed up DX12 releases for PC, as it should be a simpler way of porting (not that I would have a clue).

By the time DX12 is the norm, I fully expect to be 2 generations of cards in.

^^ This

Fable i would imagine is an Xbone exclusive, the first one was and i think the 2nd as well?

I would imagine if they do another Gears of Wars it will be DX12 and Xbone exclusive.

Wouldnt be suprised if we see Halo reinvited with DX12 either, again another exclusive.

Microsoft will milk the DX12 train for all its worth as long as possible as its truly a defining change in gaming history

drunkenmaster · 25 Feb 2015 at 10:43

Gregster said:
Yep and if anyone thinks that DX12 games will come flooding out, they will be mistaken. With the Xbone using DX12 as well, this should help speed up DX12 releases for PC, as it should be a simpler way of porting (not that I would have a clue).

By the time DX12 is the norm, I fully expect to be 2 generations of cards in.

That's simple complete nonsense. Look at Mantle, a couple months work for one or two guys is an incredibly small amount of work these days. DX12 much like Mantle will likely help speed up the porting process as it's much more transparent to the dev. it will likely be easier to get a game working on DX12/Mantle then add in DX11 support because they can see where the game is breaking and it's their own code at fault via dx12 and bug fix the game that way then only have to bug fix the DX11 bits when that gets added.

Either way, when DX11 hardware came out after say 200k DX11 cards were sold, a dev will have a customer base of a couple hundred million DX10 cards and 200k DX11 cards. The reward/cost ratio of adding DX11 features is pretty damn low. DX12 will be seemingly completely supported on AMD cards what up to almost 4 years old by the end of the year when we're told DX12 games were coming and Nvidia will have varying levels of support across hardware as old as 5 years I think by the end of the year. This is NOT the same situation. If a game maker launched something lets say in December, rather than the 200mil DX10/200k DX11 split to address, they'll have a lets say 200mil DX11/200mil DX12 split, the reward/cost ratio of doing that work is a completely different situation.

DX7-11 didn't have compatibility on older cards when they were launched, DX12 is an simply not comparable. Mantle uptake has already been years ahead of any previous DX version by the same point.

DX12 should get widespread support extremely quickly and we could even see a few devs put in some effort and patch in DX12 support for already released games though if that were to happen it would likely be RTS type games which were struggling with performance due to unit counts, Total War type stuff, some MMO's probably though they are a little different in that you expect updates anyway.

Gregster · 25 Feb 2015 at 10:53

drunkenmaster said:
That's simple complete nonsense.

I guessed you missed the part where I said I don't have a clue but thanks for being so rude.

tommybhoy · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:19

Different opinion does not=rude.

drunkenmaster · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:38

Gregster said:
I guessed you missed the part where I said I don't have a clue but thanks for being so rude.

It was rude pointing out you were wrong, sure. You also clearly didn't say you don't have a clue in relation to the parts of your post I was pointing out was nonsense.

Gregster said:
Yep and if anyone thinks that DX12 games will come flooding out, they will be mistaken. With the Xbone using DX12 as well, this should help speed up DX12 releases for PC, as it should be a simpler way of porting (not that I would have a clue).

By the time DX12 is the norm, I fully expect to be 2 generations of cards in.

First and last bit in bold clearly state that DX12 games won't be the norm for two generations(which would put it at likely 2017 or so) and that people who think DX12 will come flooding out are mistaken. There was no "I don't have a clue" in reference to that at all.

You said very clearly that you didn't have a clue in relation ONLY to if it's a simpler way of porting to the pc.

You were wrong, had it explained to you and you responded as usual with accusations and also misrepresenting what you initially said.

Mei · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:42

for dx12 to even make a difference game studios need to first care about performance, how many big budget games we seen be released that were just broken pieces of rubbish
i dont see that changing until attitudes change, and i dont see that changing until they are not allowed to put them for sale, i bet they would magically fix them then!

shankly1985 · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:46

When he wrong he will go into defence mode.. Noticed couple on here do the same thing.

I can't wait for the day a game uses multi GPUs for different tasks.. Something dx12 and mantle can do.

Gregster · 25 Feb 2015 at 11:54

Ohhh good lawd here they all come!

TheRealDeal · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:00

Gregster said:
Ohhh good lawd here they all come!

I only see Shanks lol. If that's them all then you have nothing to worry about. I was expecting droves of Zombies the way you go on sometimes.

Wizzfizz · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:07

I won't be upgrading to Win10 for a good 6-8 months after release anyway, so by then there might be new GPUs/half decent (none console port) games out. I'm currently using an old 580, quite happy with it and does what I need, without any of the issues that I had with my 970s.

TheRealDeal said:
I only see Shanks lol. If that's them all then you have nothing to worry about. I was expecting droves of Zombies the way you go on sometimes.

lol I was thinking the same, like some campaign from left4dead 2

shankly1985 · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:09

andybird123 said:
Xbox and ps4 have both sold around 20 million units, so 40 million total... nvidia have been selling 6-10 million units per quarter for 3 years, so around 100 million units, but its cute that you think console gaming is bigger than PC gaming.

Add to that the ps4 API is in no way similar to DX12 which is on both PC and Xbox...

LOL You really think PC gaming is bigger than Console gaming?? Not a chance while PC gaming is so much better no question it will always be playing catch up in the sales the console makes.

Go and look at any Multi-Plat game - Sales vs console to PC and you see.

Even the playing number on that game PS4 is always way ahead.
http://bf4stats.com/

Martini1991 · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:10

So, I should be expecting every game from say 2016 onwards to be DX12 if it appears on the Xbox One?

TheRealDeal · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:11

Wizzfizz said:
lol I was thinking the same, like some campaign from left4dead 2

Lol i was actually thinking of that game when i wrote it.

Gregster · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:31

TheRealDeal said:
I only see Shanks lol. If that's them all then you have nothing to worry about. I was expecting droves of Zombies the way you go on sometimes.

Well even when I disagree with people, I try my utmost to maintain civility. Something a few others could learn by. Now I don't profess to be clued up on DX12 and DM doesn't know either, so when neither of us know, does his response require rudeness? I don't think so but hey, keyboard warriors and all that

So DX12 will be very easy and backward compatible according to DM... Now we wait and see.

tommybhoy · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:39

Pot Kettle Wolf.

TheRealDeal · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:40

Gregster said:
Well even when I disagree with people, I try my utmost to maintain civility. Something a few others could learn by. Now I don't profess to be clued up on DX12 and DM doesn't know either, so when neither of us know, does his response require rudeness? I don't think so but hey, keyboard warriors and all that

So DX12 will be very easy and backward compatible according to DM... Now we wait and see.

He can be rather blunt so i will give you that. Hopefully what DM said is true and we can expect dx12 games sooner than what has happened in the passed with new dx releases.

kazuya1337 · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:43

The only market Consoles outstrip PC in terms of sales is the AAA market and that is a cancer which is dying a painful death.

Also I'm willing to put money on that there won't be a PS5 or Xbox2 because Sony and Microsoft lose money on everyone they ship. What they all want is a storefront as successful as Steam and someone else supplying the hardware but as EA have shown with Origin if poor products and greedy prices drive your business it won't be popular.

The only company I see who will continue making hardware because they have such a strong library of unique games over several of their own platforms is Nintendo.

Wizzfizz · 25 Feb 2015 at 12:50

Gregster said:
Well even when I disagree with people, I try my utmost to maintain civility. Something a few others could learn by. Now I don't profess to be clued up on DX12 and DM doesn't know either, so when neither of us know, does his response require rudeness? I don't think so but hey, keyboard warriors and all that

So DX12 will be very easy and backward compatible according to DM... Now we wait and see.

You need to get into debates with the likes of Glaucus, it doesn't come more blunt than him on here. You'd have a conniption fit

I don't think DM is being 'rude', he just has a different opinion. Just forget about it and move on, or report it, if you're offended

Gregster · 25 Feb 2015 at 13:02

Wizzfizz said:
You need to get into debates with the likes of Glaucus, it doesn't come more blunt than him on here. You'd have a conniption fit I don't think DM is being 'rude', he just has a different opinion. Just forget about it and move on, or report it, if you're offended

Don't steal my line

andybird123 · 25 Feb 2015 at 13:05

shankly1985 said:
LOL You really think PC gaming is bigger than Console gaming?? Not a chance while PC gaming is so much better no question it will always be playing catch up in the sales the console makes.

Go and look at any Multi-Plat game - Sales vs console to PC and you see.

Even the playing number on that game PS4 is always way ahead.
http://bf4stats.com/

I dont think it, widespread reports from analysts who do actual research on actual sales data tell me that games console software sells less than PC gaming
There are lots of games that are PC exclusive and have massive revenues, over a billion a year, no single console game has taken more than a billion a year by the time you take PC sales out of the gross figure.

Yes PS4 outsells PC in aaa boxed games, but even then most aaa sales data you see ignores digital sales.