D3D12 articles - so much misunderstandings and miscommunications

[shankly1985]

Your about as informed as Amd's pr team. I look on a graphics card forum for info on graphics card yet it took an unknown Dev to inform people of Amd's advantage in dx12.

Amd have released any information till closer to release. This information is leaked information not from amd..

Has anyone released detailed information about dx12 and what it means to there hardware? Answer is no
All we know from amd and nvidia is what is and isn't supported. It very much ends there.

 

[shankly1985]

Nice info for us 290 owners if it's true, and not good for Maxwell if it's only got partial support. The storm will make the 970-issues seem tame in comparison...

Even more so when Nvidia list it as a full dx12 support..

Least amd list it as full dx12 support very well could mean full support..
Very interesting.

 

[Martini1991]

Guy states he doesn't actually know what's possible/not with the Nvidia stuff.
So yeah....

 

[drunkenmaster]

Amd have released any information till closer to release. This information is leaked information not from amd..

Has anyone released detailed information about dx12 and what it means to there hardware? Answer is no
All we know from amd and nvidia is what is and isn't supported. It very much ends there.

More importantly the specs of things change, that includes API's, so if AMD went around saying all their cards support DX12 and another feature is added in the final 6 months that will need new hardware, they would get nothing but **** for it. There is a time to talk about things, NDA's people sign, legal obligations to not say things till a certain time and the backlash you can get if you jump the gun early and find things change making that statement appear false(even if true at the time it was said).

Though there has been rumours and mutterings for several months now that GCN as a whole will have significantly more DX12 compatibility than Nvidia... though that isn't particularly new.

Remember that AMD supported the full original DX10 spec and Nvidia missed off support for a fairly significant part of the spec... MS changed the spec and thus they both met the new version of DX10. Had AMD claimed superior DX10 support a year before then on release with the extra feature removed from DX10 they'd have appeared to have lied. So what would happen if AMD say Nvidia meet less of the DX12 spec on most cards... then the spec changes and that statement becomes false... will people be sensible and see the spec changed and AMD didn't lie or will the forums get stupid over the perceived lying of AMD? If you want to know why people keep things quiet until near releases... this is why.

 

[JediFragger]

Guy states he doesn't actually know what's possible/not with the Nvidia stuff.
So yeah....

Yup, and their seem to workarounds within the architecture so they could side-step it that way...

 

[gareth170]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-demonstrates-2014mar20.aspx

​Full DirectX 12 compatibility promised for the award-winning Graphics Core Next architecture

amd as already promised ​Full DirectX 12 for the Graphics Core Next architecture

 

[Martini1991]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-demonstrates-2014mar20.aspx



amd as already promised ​Full DirectX 12 for the Graphics Core Next architecture

I'd wait until they actually announce the models before getting too excited.

It could be a case of GCN 1.0 and 1.1, but then you never know, it could be GCN 1.1 only.

Have Nvidia given a full list of the cards that are fully DX12 compliant?

Frankly I think we'll have new GPU's touting full DX12 compliance within this year anyway though.

 

[gareth170]

I'd wait until they actually announce the models before getting too excited.

It could be a case of GCN 1.0 and 1.1, but then you never know, it could be GCN 1.1 only.

Have Nvidia given a full list of the cards that are fully DX12 compliant?

Frankly I think we'll have new GPU's touting full DX12 compliance within this year anyway though.

it says all gcn cards

AMD revealed that it will support DirectX® 12 on all AMD Radeon™ GPUs that feature the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture.

 

[Martini1991]

it says all gcn cards

Doesn't say "full" support.

I don't get why people are so adamant on something they could be completely wrong on, and are only right by chance, rather than actual merit. Surely it's far better to view everything as is until there's genuine confirmation?

See ;

A DirectX® 12 support schedule for AMD Radeon™ GPUs will be published at a later date.

I'm assuming my 290's going to be fine, but for those on GCN 1.0? They may, they might not be.

Not that I think it ultimately matters, when a game's going at it, I will see us all needing new GPU's. Metro 2033 was naff on the first set of AMD DX11 cards for example.

 

[drunkenmaster]

So assuming this guy knows what he is talking about, he seems to be saying that programming for DX12 is a whole new ball game. Regardless of which currant cards can or cannot do this or that feature, as that is a completely irrelevant argument to have as by the time this is released (later this year ?) and then developers get to work on it, the first games will be out in what 2 years, maybe more. So those with 290/380/470's will be able to say yay my card can use all these features at 10fps, haha you suck NVidia.

Anyway more seriously, it would seem that the developers might have to put more work in to get all these new features to work. It might make the speciality features like TressFX and Gameworks all the more appealing to developers as hopefully it will cut down the time they need to get to grips with the new way things will be done. could mean new games arrive a little sooner.

It all sounds exciting, all we need now is some actually good games.

This really isn't the case, first off in a lot of situations game engines are already doing much of the management that DX11 does... because a lot of it is sensible coding practice, managing resources and the like. Several devs have stated, including Johan in regards to Frostbite, along the lines that while DX11 doesn't require a certain level of memory management in the game engine because it will do it for you, they do it in game anyway. Because at a certain point an engine is complex and big enough that you need to do it, just to write good code(though obviously doesn't guarantee it in Frostbite's case ) ... then we have the situation that DX11 just pretty much replicates the work but less efficiently.

In other words, a lot of major engines are effectively low level anyway, which shouldn't be a surprise as most of them have to work on multiple consoles of which most have low level access/control of resources and thus need this supported in their game engines. It's how Frostbite/Starswarm and I think Thief devs all pretty much said it took a couple of guys a month or so to add Mantle support, very little needed changing just actually making the right calls to a new API, following the rules, fixing bugs, all three game engines absolutely did not require significant changes to support Mantle and neither would they for DX12.

DX12 uptake will be far far far quicker than DX11, it is also why multiple devs have stated that Mantle is a way to get experience in the meantime, because much of the work on Mantle will be applicable to DX12. By seeing how a game engine works on Mantle you will have a decent idea of the performance on offer with DX12, where you gain performance and perhaps where you can add/use more cpu or gpu power as a result. Freeing up the DX cpu limitations leaves more cpu power for... more units such as in starswarm, or better AI, or whatever else.

It won't be 2 years till we see DX12 games because DX12 isn't a whole new ballgame, it's effectively an old one but with the shackles taken off.

 

[gareth170]

Doesn't say "full" support.

I don't get why people are so adamant on something they could be completely wrong on, and are only right by chance, rather than actual merit. Surely it's far better to view everything as is until there's genuine confirmation?

that article is from amd.

I'm assuming my 290's going to be fine, but for those on GCN 1.0? They may, they might not be.

by the looks of it the GCN 1.0 may not get DX 12 or full DX12.. because looking on amd they are adverting the 2x0 cards as dx 12 but the 7xx0 are adverted as dx 11.2 still

 

[Martini1991]

that article is from amd.



by the looks of it the GCN 1.0 may not get DX 12 or full DX12.. because looking on amd they are adverting the 2x0 cards as dx 12 but the 7xx0 are adverted as dx 11.2 still

You've seemingly just agreed with me, but in the first instance you're questioning what I mean. You basically said that "All AMD GCN are getting full DX12", pointed to a piece from AMD which doesn't actually state that as fact. Hence the second part of the post where you've just reiterated what I'd said.

I'm confused.

 

[gareth170]

You've seemingly just agreed with me, but in the first instance you're questioning what I mean. You basically said that "All AMD GCN are getting full DX12", pointed to a piece from AMD which doesn't actually state that as fact. Hence the second part of the post where you've just reiterated what I'd said.

I'm confused.

it does state all cards that feature AMD GCN architecture will get Full DirectX 12 compatibility.

so it's either they've forgot to update the spec listing on they site for the 7xx0 series most likely or they've found a issue with the GCN 1.0/DX12 or something or because 7xx0 series can't be bought from retailers hence why they haven't update the spec listing on they site

 

[Martini1991]

it does state all cards that feature AMD GCN architecture will get Full DirectX 12 compatibility.

so it's either they've forgot to update the spec listing on they site for the 7xx0 series most likely or they've found a issue with the GCN 1.0/DX12 or something hence why they haven't update the spec listing on they site

If it was a simple "All GCN cards have full DX12 capability" we wouldn't have them saying that they will announce card support etc at a later date.

It doesn't actually say all GCN gets full DX12 capability, you're just reading it that way (When they refer to GCN, they could be simply implying GCN 1.1, not 1.0. It's still GCN). It could mean that sure, it could also not mean that. They're certainly saying that all GCN cards can get DX12 support, but they're not saying that every single GCN card gets full DX12 support. AMD play fast and loose with the truth, this to me is one of those moments. Like I say, it's either here or there. It could be full support for all GCN, it might not be.

 

[gareth170]

If it was a simple "All GCN cards have full DX12 capability" we wouldn't have them saying that they will announce card support etc at a later date.

It doesn't actually say all GCN gets full DX12 capability, you're just reading it that way (When they refer to GCN, they could be simply implying GCN 1.1, not 1.0. It's still GCN). It could mean that sure, it could also not mean that.

if you read it like this. they promise Full DirectX 12 compatibility for Graphics Core Next architecture. so all gpus that uses GCN will get full compatibly

​

Full DirectX 12 compatibility promised for the award-winning Graphics Core Next architecture

DirectX® 12 on all AMD Radeon™ GPUs that feature the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture.

thats how i read it/see it

if it turns out to be wrong then fair enough but if it turns out to be right then great

 

[Martini1991]

See, the quote you're using, the two sentences aren't actually the same thing (Well, they can be the same thing, and at the same time can't)

It's a case of not telling the "truth" while not lying to me.

No where do I see AMD saying "Every GCN GPU is fully DX12 compliant"

If full DX12 compliance only comes to GCN 1.1, then the statement of ; "Full DirectX 12 compatibility promised for the award-winning Graphics Core Next architecture" isn't wrong.

But I'm only weary because AMD are pretty much masters at not telling the truth while not lying.

 

[gareth170]

i agree it can be taken both way.

i guess am just hoping it is right the way i read it

but as i said if it turns out to be wrong then fair enough but if it turns out to be right then great

 

[Martini1991]

Yeah, we'll wait and see.

I think it's ultimately irrelevant anyway.

 

[BS Dave]

If GCN cards have better DX12 support right now I'm sure Nvidia will just pay developers to not use them, or get Microsoft to take out the features until their cards do support it.

DX10

DX10.1(?) Assassins Creed...

Tbh though if AMDs market share gets much lower they'll be no point using better features as no-one will be using them anyway...

 

[The Running Man]

Do you optimise a game for a brand that bas only a quarter market share?