Britain is leading the charge against basic human rights says Amnesty International

[LordSplodge]

'Reduction of access to justice' - presumably they are talking about legal aid?

So not paying somebodies legal bills is an 'assault of human rights'?

If only the rich can afford justice then their is no justice. I'd say access to fair justice is a human right.

really? countries performing beheading and mutilation as punishment are less against human rights than the uk? really?

Why is it every organization like amnesty rapidly ends up a joke.

Clearly there are places that are far worse than the UK, but we should compare apples to apples.

 

[a1ex2001]

Amnesty like most other mega charities is just a big joke, they are effectively massive businesses hiding from tax laws by calling themselves charities so far removed from what they started out as so as to make them unrecognisable. Big charity like big business is just an unfathomable game.

 

[Amp34]

Because as a taxpayer I can't afford to pay for my own legal representation and in my taxes afford to ay for those who don't pay taxes also? Where is my right to not have my own money taken from me and wasted on criminals? Three strikes and you're soyulent green anyone? Cost saving would be immense, and think of all the protein, more protein than Mo Farrah could shake a quorn mince curry at.

Last time I checked you're only a criminal AFTER you are convicted... As much as the police and security services seem to wish that wasn't the case.

In any free, democratic society you have the right to a fair trial and to be judged by your peers. The police make mistakes and good legal representation hopefully reduces the possibility of innocent people going to jail.

If you don't want that the. I suggest you go and join the people in the Middle East. Many of them appear to be want a similar regime to you.

 

[LordSplodge]

"Human rights" are nonsense.

Care to elaborate or are you just trolling?

Further proof that in this day and age we need to stop giving as much importance and relevance to these so-called "human rights" organisations. Yes real human rights are important but when all the important ones are achieved groups like Amnesty are motivated to make up new ones and get all hysterical about them.

We need organisations like Amnesty to keep governments in check. Yin and Yang.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[Amp34]

While surveillance is indeed a problem (a legacy begun under Labour, in part due to the change in technology/terrorist activity but also something they could have prevented). I'm highly sceptical we are leading the way to a 'failing on human rights' when we have excellent provision for the disabled (compared to many EU nations) a welfare state, national heath-care & recently some huge leaps forward in equality.

The reduction in legal aid is of course a serious issue.

I think AI are talking about the relative change rather than the absolute. We have dropped significantly compared to others in Europe due to the aforementioned situations, we aren't low down the table, but heading in that direction faster than others with the changes made in the last few years.

 

[wordy]

'Reduction of access to justice' - presumably they are talking about legal aid?

So not paying somebodies legal bills is an 'assault of human rights'?

Why do you hate poor people so much?

 

[LordSplodge]

I think AI are talking about the relative change rather than the absolute. We have dropped significantly compared to others in Europe due to the aforementioned situations, we aren't low down the table, but heading in that direction faster than others with the changes made in the last few years.

Exactly.

 

[Tunney]

And here's the kicker - these cuts to legal aid don't even save the country any money. The rise in wrongful convictions is going to cost tax payers in appeals, compensation for those wrongfully convicted and keeping innocent people in prison.

Chris Grayling knew this and illegally suppressed the evidence.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Labour did away with centuries old magna carta due to one small terrorist attack. Blunkett signed away the right to trial and innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Stretch]

If you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to particular fear.

Public webcam in your bedroom?

 

[CosmicClown]

Coulda predicted the way this thread will go...

People moaning about their taxes and where they go and people who just don't care as this doesn't effect them.......at this moment in time. How about moaning about the millions in taxes that corporate entities dodge? instead of the pittance the most vulnerable people in society take in order to SURVIVE.

Edit - Someone already posted the quote I had in mind

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Sums it up

 

[scorza]

Public webcam in your bedroom?

Why would you put a public webcam in your bedroom?

I'm not surprised to find out that the guy they've named as Jihadi John has links to a Human Rights charity - Caged, who were supporting him after he was detained and questioned by MI6 in Tanzania.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why do you hate poor people so much?

I don't and that's completely not what I meant. I either did a particularly bad job of explaining my point or failed to understand the distinction between human rights and things that are an important part of a fair society.

I equated human rights with things like clean water, a right to a family, etc rather than services from the government which although very important are somewhat different.

At no point have I ever disagreed with the concept of legal aid - I think its entirely appropriate and correct that it exists and is an important part of our justice system. I just didn't equate its reduction in scope with being a 'human rights abuse', that's all.

I simply expressed surprise that something like reduction in scope of legal aid was a 'charge against basic human rights' especially with everything else going on in the world!

 

[Stretch]

Why would you put a public webcam in your bedroom?

I wouldn't.

 

[Tunney]

I simply expressed surprise that something like reduction in scope of legal aid was a 'charge against basic human rights' especially with everything else going on in the world!

Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Cuts to criminal legal aid have impacted on this right.

 

[anything I don't mind]

They are only expanding the removal of rights in the name of anti-terror. Essentially, if the state deems you a terrorist you have no rights.

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2015/02/uk-enacts-strict-anti-terror-legislation.php

 

[Haggisman]

If you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to particular fear.

Until something normal and mundane that you do every day becomes illegal...

I don't and that's completely not what I meant. I either did a particularly bad job of explaining my point or failed to understand the distinction between human rights and things that are an important part of a fair society.

I equated human rights with things like clean water, a right to a family, etc rather than services from the government which although very important are somewhat different.

At no point have I ever disagreed with the concept of legal aid - I think its entirely appropriate and correct that it exists and is an important part of our justice system. I just didn't equate its reduction in scope with being a 'human rights abuse', that's all.

I simply expressed surprise that something like reduction in scope of legal aid was a 'charge against basic human rights' especially with everything else going on in the world!

So you've just been accused of <insert crime here> (which you didn't commit) and are facing life imprisonment, your accuser has a team of lawyers ready to tear you to pieces, but you can't afford your own legal representation and are unable to defend yourself.

Where is the justice in that?

You usually make very good, well thought-out posts, but sometimes the solutions you offer or the scenarios you lay out make it seem like you think we're living in an "ideal" world where there's no injustice and things happen just as they're "supposed to"

 

[fez]

The problem we have is that unless the country rises up to stop this sort of thing it will happen regardless of the government. These issues are also increasingly complex as society become more complex and diverse. Its not quite so easy to ignore the threat of terror if you actually know what is being done to stop it and how close we have come to disaster. The other side of the coin is that we have no idea what the reality is.

Its almost impossible to run a country where you please people. Its even harder when you have a media that is completely hellbent on playing devils advocate at every turn.

If we have a massive terror attack then there will be outcry that it was allowed to happen but at the same time everyone complains about losing their rights to privacy etc. We are basically a fickle bunch of idiots that want everything to be done with the benefit of hindsight.

Everyone would love the NHS to be brilliant and do as much as they can for everyone, see patients as quickly as possible, have no mistakes in operations or care. That would be amazing. Then 20 years down the line the NHS collapses in a mountain of debt and the country suffers hugely as a result and everyone says "why didn't someone stop this".

We all want our cake and to eat it too. Conservatives do things to try and undo the damage Labour caused and they are pilloried. Labour cause the damage and are pilloried. Somehow people think that there is a magical solution to problems that undoes damage done by an unfair and unsustainable system without having to make cuts.

If you live a lifestyle that requires a salary of £50,000 / year and only earn £20,000 you are unlikely to be able to sustain that lifestyle indefinitely. You might even have to drop to a lifestyle that is more in line with someone earning £15,000.

More on topic, large companies like amnesty are not stupid. They will use whatever headlines will gain them the most exposure.

 

[LordSplodge]

Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Cuts to criminal legal aid have impacted on this right.

There seems to be confusion between Human Rights (as presented in the Declaration of Human Rights) and Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs.

They're not quite the same...

 

[cheesyboy]

There seems to be confusion between Human Rights (as presented in the Declaration of Human Rights) and Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs.

They're not quite the same...

You're right, though.