Airbus A320 Crashes in Alps

Dj_Jestar · 27 Mar 2015 at 12:07

that news article said:
They said they found torn-up sick notes in his homes, including one covering the day of the crash.

Whoah. That's going to sting.

JoeF1 · 27 Mar 2015 at 12:12

mattyg said:
Just to add. The switch is under a gate so would need to lift that up in order to get access to the switch

Argh, sorry the GMB was a different model plane but they said identical apart from plane size. So guessing some switches would differ too because the one he was showing definatly did not have the gate.

Dj_Jestar · 27 Mar 2015 at 12:14

robgmun said:
There's actually a pin pad that they could've used to over-ride the lock, but apparently that was disabled within the cockpit also. They need to remove the function.

We know. ross26k is alluding to another, secretive, method that he has "been informed" about.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 12:54

robgmun said:
There's actually a pin pad that they could've used to over-ride the lock, but apparently that was disabled within the cockpit also. They need to remove the function.

I don't think removing it would a good idea. The thinking is if a member of crew was being held hostage they could be forced into punching in the code. The cockpit need to be able to override this in order to avoid another potential 9/11.

Unfortunately the Aviation world may have to admit they cannot keep aircraft 100% safe from lunatics.

In this case maybe it should be mandatory for Doctors to inform the airlines directly of all issues that may impede a pilots performance.

Quite frankly I am shocked if true he was just given sick and the airline was not informed.

JoeF1 · 27 Mar 2015 at 12:59

What about giving the cabin crew a phone which has a direct link to ATC. They can remote open the door?

Then again you have the whole hostage phone call but then they could add the safe/danger words to authenticate right? Not too far fetched.

Johno please? · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:07

Django x2 said:
In which case. Man up. There's no need to take 149 other people with you because you suffer from the imaginative "depression".

"Oh, it's raining outside and my girlfriend said she didn't want to be with me anymore...I have depression". Please.......

*** Not needed to get your point across *** - Will Gill

Not really a shocking revelation.... most people with depression probably have jobs. Its just most of us are not in charge of other peoples lives.

neil_g · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:15

Johno please? said:
Not really a shocking revelation.... most people with depression probably have jobs. Its just most of us are not in charge of other peoples lives.

indeed.

one of the UKs mental health charities says that:

"About a quarter of the population will experience some kind of mental health problem in the course of a year, with mixed anxiety and depression the most common mental disorder in Britain"

its a huge problem worldwide, that needs addressing. people need to not be ashamed to admit they are struggling with life.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:16

JoeF1 said:
What about giving the cabin crew a phone which has a direct link to ATC. They can remote open the door?

Then again you have the whole hostage phone call but then they could add the safe/danger words to authenticate right? Not too far fetched.

The hostage situation is going to be the flaw in any security. I remember after 9/11 when they introduced the security doors that the pilots representatives said that in hostage situation would the pilots really keep the doors locked?

Obviously they are under orders not to open them in any circumstances. But if you had people being executed and tortured the other side of the door they are human like any one else and may give in and open up.

Strangely the doors seem to have made it possible for a totally new type of air terror.

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:27

Third Opinion said:
The hostage situation is going to be the flaw in any security. I remember after 9/11 when they introduced the security doors that the pilots representatives said that in hostage situation would the pilots really keep the doors locked?

Obviously they are under orders not to open them in any circumstances. But if you had people being executed and tortured the other side of the door they are human like any one else and may give in and open up.

Strangely the doors seem to have made it possible for a totally new type of air terror.

To be honest If I thought opening the door would get even more people killed then I doubt most pilots would open the door. If I were on one side and 150 strangers were on the other. I would let them all be killed before I thought about opening the door so someone could crash an aircraft killing everyone.

At least 2 people would survive.

Having the door in place stops the FD from being overran. Meaning terrorist HAVE to find an alternative way. If you remove the door then your making it easier again.

Unfortunately since 1999 it actually looks like Pilot suicide has killed more passengers than terrorists.

kwerk · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:36

Most likely on SSRIs or suffering withdrawls from going off. Guns and planes dont kill people psychoactive prescription drugs kill people.

Peerzy · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:42

mattyg said:
Unfortunately since 1999 it actually looks like Pilot suicide has killed more passengers than terrorists.

Do you have a source for this?

9/11 alone was nearly 3000 terrorist related deaths so that would be 20 pilot suicides (at 150 passengers a time) in the last 16 years just to equal that?

Xordium · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:44

mattyg said:
Unfortunately since 1999 it actually looks like Pilot suicide has killed more passengers than terrorists.

Well that is a rather false comparison isn't it. You have to actually think how many potential terrorist acts did locking the doors prevent. I suspect rather a lot.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:51

Latest is he had very long term mental illness. He was previously deemed unfit to fly from Lufthansa flight school in Arizona.

His employers were aware of his mental issues and he had to under go regular assessments. However it has been suggested these were not followed up and he in effect fell under the radar as a potential threat.

Of course this isn't confirmed but a picture seems to be emerging quite quickly. Immediately after the crash German Wings was highly praised for its efficiency and safety practices.

It is a worrying thought if pilots mental performance isn't being taken seriously by operators.

scorza · 27 Mar 2015 at 13:58

Some guy on the radio speculating that he may have been schizophrenic and the voices in his head told him to crash the plane. Don't know what that was based on but it would make more sense than just depression on its own.

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:04

mattyg said:
Unfortunately since 1999 it actually looks like Pilot suicide has killed more passengers than terrorists.

Peerzy said:
Do you have a source for this?

9/11 alone was nearly 3000 terrorist related deaths so that would be 20 pilot suicides (at 150 passengers a time) in the last 16 years just to equal that?

Passengers

if germanwings with 150 on board is added to egyptair 590 with 217 on board and (maybe) Malaysia 370 with 239 on board, the total killed by pilot Suicide will be double the number of airline passengers killed by terrorist murderers during the same period (since 1999)

Em3bbs · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:06

But fortunately having a locked door has probably saved more LIVES

neil_g · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:06

scorza said:
Some guy on the radio speculating that he may have been schizophrenic and the voices in his head told him to crash the plane. Don't know what that was based on but it would make more sense than just depression on its own.

you dont need to be schizophrenic to be depressed to the state of not caring who is collateral damage.

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:10

Em3bbs said:
But fortunately having a locked door has probably saved more LIVES

Maybe....maybe not.

But my post still stands.

since 1999 it looks like more suicidal pilots have killed more passengers than terrorists.

So we fixed one problem but created another.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:15

mattyg said:
Passengers

if germanwings with 150 on board is added to egyptair 590 with 217 on board and (maybe) Malaysia 370 with 239 on board, the total killed by pilot Suicide will be double the number of airline passengers killed by terrorist murderers during the same period (since 1999)

Do we know of any situations were the locking doors have prevented a cockpit takeover?

We almost know they allowed this guy to carry out this act without being challenged (if it is accurate).

Pure speculation but if MH370 was proven to be pilot suicide then it is entirely possible that a similar thing happened aboard that aircraft.

If both were proven and the same, imagine the dilemma the aviation world is going to be in?

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:20

I don't think getting rid of the locked door is the issue.

I think its the position of the locked door.

Stick an extra £10 onto my ticket and lose and extra row of seats to give the FD its own toilet.

The issue isn't stopping the flying pilot committing suicide the issue is stopping him taking out a plane full of passengers or innocents on the ground.

Make it near impossible at work and they'll do it at home

Airbus A320 Crashes in Alps

Wise Guy