Airbus A320 Crashes in Alps

Hagar · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:24

When I was about 10 years old I flew regularly to West Africa for holidays as my father worked as a civil engineer there.

I belonged to the BOAC junior jet club and had a log book to record miles. One of the highlights each flight was a visit to the flight deck, Boeing 707's mainly, the odd VC10, and a talk to the crew. There were two pilots and a flight engineer on each flight.

How sad life is nowadays.

There were more incidents then (1960's) I remember a few even in the UK. My mother was on a flight over the Sahara when two engines went down on a Trident and had to land part way. I once sat on a plane at Lagos all night until they repaired it sufficiently to take off.

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:26

I went up to the FD of a 747 in the late 70's en route to Canada. Don't really remember it though. But I did get a toy 747 from the Captain

Simmz · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:32

If the other pilot had of managed to actually get back in the flight deck, would he actually of been able to do anything or would it still have been the same out come?

Dj_Jestar · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:33

mattyg said:
Passengers

if germanwings with 150 on board is added to egyptair 590 with 217 on board and (maybe) Malaysia 370 with 239 on board, the total killed by pilot Suicide will be double the number of airline passengers killed by terrorist murderers during the same period (since 1999)

Have you got a source on 370 and 239 being pilot suicide?

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:44

Dj_Jestar said:
Have you got a source on 370 and 239 being pilot suicide?

I think you know the answer to that.

However if your trying to be arsey then maybe read what I wrote. Especially the bit that says (Maybe)

InvaderGIR · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:48

mattyg said:
I think you know the answer to that.

However if your trying to be arsey then maybe read what I wrote. Especially the bit that says (Maybe)

Why even include it in your example/stats? The reason behind the MH370 disappearance isn't know so you can't use wild speculation to help your argument...oh wait, this is GD....

Efour · 27 Mar 2015 at 14:53

mattyg said:
The issue isn't stopping the flying pilot committing suicide the issue is stopping him taking out a plane full of passengers or innocents on the ground.

Exactly. All they need is hand guns or bottles of paracetamol in the cabin.

Dj_Jestar · 27 Mar 2015 at 15:05

mattyg said:
I think you know the answer to that.

However if your trying to be arsey then maybe read what I wrote. Especially the bit that says (Maybe)

You can't even bring yourself to say "No." Fitting.

mcast · 27 Mar 2015 at 15:09

Apologies for the potential stupid question, how the heck can they always have 2 crew? I don't see budget airlines hiring 50% more pilots anytime soon.

Peerzy · 27 Mar 2015 at 15:10

mcast said:
Apologies for the potential stupid question, how the heck can they always have 2 crew? I don't see budget airlines hiring 50% more pilots anytime soon.

It's a second authorized person. The trolley dolly can step in for 5 minutes whilst a pilot nips out.

Redgie · 27 Mar 2015 at 15:28

Just thinking out loud here.

Would it be feasible to have a remote override of the door lock mechanism that still required the code to be entered locally? This would then mean in this case the pilot could have pressed a button on the console to contact HQ, who would then see what's going on (again if new tech was in) and remove the forced lock, the pilot would then enter the code to gain entry.

Obviously mind you this has a downside that if the remote was used maliciously, a would-be terrorist could (try and) force the pilot to enter their code, then have the door forced open.

I suppose you could ask the question; what's more likely, a terrorist attack or a pilot suicide...?

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 15:47

Redgie said:
I suppose you could ask the question; what's more likely, a terrorist attack or a pilot suicide...?

I think up to a couple of days ago we would all have said terrorist. However the way this one is going and that a major line of enquiry in the MH370 seems to be suicide it does make you wonder.

I remember back to MH370 there was a lot of speculation if it was suicide did one pilot over power the other. This has opened up a whole new possibility on how he could have taken control of the plane and flown it off course into the ocean.

Scary thought.

Zbornak · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:02

Redgie said:
Just thinking out loud here.

Would it be feasible to have a remote override of the door lock mechanism that still required the code to be entered locally? This would then mean in this case the pilot could have pressed a button on the console to contact HQ, who would then see what's going on (again if new tech was in) and remove the forced lock, the pilot would then enter the code to gain entry.

Obviously mind you this has a downside that if the remote was used maliciously, a would-be terrorist could (try and) force the pilot to enter their code, then have the door forced open.

The solution is to mandate at least 2 people on the flight deck at all times.

dannyjo22 · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:10

robgmun said:
There's actually a pin pad that they could've used to over-ride the lock, but apparently that was disabled within the cockpit also. They need to remove the function.

Theres no pin pad to over ride the lock and it doesn't need disabling.

Simply you can't have a scenario where someone can come in no matter what because as I have stated over and over we all know the airline codes to get in. There will be literally 5000 people who know the entry code for Ryanair.

mattyg said:
Just to add. The switch is under a gate so would need to lift that up in order to get access to the switch

No it isn't under a gate, it's just a mutli position toggle switch. Unlock, normal and lock. Video button next to it so you can see whose at the door.

Destination · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:11

Redgie said:
Just thinking out loud here.

Would it be feasible to have a remote override of the door lock mechanism that still required the code to be entered locally? This would then mean in this case the pilot could have pressed a button on the console to contact HQ, who would then see what's going on (again if new tech was in) and remove the forced lock, the pilot would then enter the code to gain entry.

Obviously mind you this has a downside that if the remote was used maliciously, a would-be terrorist could (try and) force the pilot to enter their code, then have the door forced open.

I suppose you could ask the question; what's more likely, a terrorist attack or a pilot suicide...?

No it wouldn't be feasible, have you seen how utterly gubbins the current setup is for flight recorders and the little data the produce and how short a signal they currently generate is?

Remoting something to a plane so that base can accept a code flip a release switch and allow remote access? Totally bizarre.
Lets complicate a situation that can't occur in many current airlines already, as they insist on two people in the cockpit at all times.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:13

Maybe in time this will strengthen the case for pilot less planes.

Highly controversial idea but probably inevitable in the end.

Destination · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:14

dannyjo22 said:
Theres no pin pad to over ride the lock and it doesn't need disabling.

Simply you can't have a scenario where someone can come in no matter what because as I have stated over and over we all know the airline codes to get in. There will be literally 5000 people who know the entry code for Ryanair.

No it isn't under a gate, it's just a mutli position toggle switch. Unlock, normal and lock. Video button next to it so you can see whose at the door.

Does it need to just be flicked once, or do you need to keep flicking the switch?
They kept talking about a lock out for between 5-20 minutes.

Could for example, a person have a faint, flick the switch downwards in a last action by grasping for it in error, and then leave the door on lock while being unresponsive? (not this situation but hypothetical)

Redgie · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:15

Third Opinion said:
Maybe in time this will strengthen the case for pilot less planes.

Highly controversial idea but probably inevitable in the end.

I doubt this is likely to affect the case for or against that. The biggest criticism of autonomous planes is that they can be hijacked or develop a fault.

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:21

Third Opinion said:
I think up to a couple of days ago we would all have said terrorist. However the way this one is going and that a major line of enquiry in the MH370 seems to be suicide it does make you wonder.

I remember back to MH370 there was a lot of speculation if it was suicide did one pilot over power the other. This has opened up a whole new possibility on how he could have taken control of the plane and flown it off course into the ocean.

Scary thought.

Be careful thats "wild speculation"

mattyg · 27 Mar 2015 at 16:22

dannyjo22 said:
No it isn't under a gate, it's just a mutli position toggle switch. Unlock, normal and lock. Video button next to it so you can see whose at the door.

Quiet correct I stand corrected.