AMD's Future of Gaming: FreeSync, DirectX 12, LiquidVR, VR And More

[bru]

That is what Gregster was getting confused with and you also.

Drawing the same frame isn't the same has 30 vs 60fps

60fps being each frame is new, doubled 30fps each frame as a copy.

It's goal is to remove screen tearing, same has the more known triple Buffering.
The game will still be 25fps meaning you will only ever see one of each them frames shown, even thought it is two over each other.

ok so in that case if you load up your favourite game, say battlefield 4, move to a place where nothing is happening on screen. Your onscreen frame counter will tell you your doing 75fps for example, you do not move anything for a whole minute. calculating things the way you suggest your getting one frame a minute, rather than 75 frames a second.

Do you really think it matters to a monitor whether each frame is different or each is the same for the frame rate to be calculated ?

Personally I think you have it wrong.

 

[shankly1985]

That's were Gsync comes in. And that's why once you pass VRR window 36hz the module then must work out what refresh rate and add in frames.

For example
25fps Gsync will set 50hz two matching frames per second fit in the refresh rate = no screen tear.

15fps would be 60hz now the module will triple Buffer..
Gsync will only start doing its 1to1 once you get 36fps and above.

Personally I think you should read more into it. Ryan from pcper even replied to a comment saying them frames are invisible to the users.

PCM2 over in the monitor section posted a detailed post.

Don't for once here think am dissing Gsync because that would be completely wrong I find it very clever what they done to stop screen tear at the lowest window.

 

[shankly1985]

The frame rate and refresh rate will never be in tune unless they is some synchronisation going on. And for that sync to happen each frame must fit inside a refresh.

When Gsync sends two frames 25 frame per second to a refresh at 50hz you will only ever see one of each them frames at each second.

 

[Ian Evey]

Nah its 50 frames per second, If we can only see 25 fps then so be it, It's still sending 25 fps x2 = 50.

 

[andybird123]

Sitting inside that intel CPU is AMDs own standard 64bit that is "OPEN"

I wounder what this industry would have been like if AMD locked that for themselves?

it is licenced, it isn't open, intel and AMD have a cross licencing agreement
anyone else wanting to produce x86-64 processors would have to get a licence from Intel for x86 and then a licence from AMD for x86-64... not really what I would call "OPEN"

 

[shankly1985]

Nah its 50 frames per second, If we can only see 25 fps then so be it, It's still sending 25 fps x2 = 50.

Yes but it's still only showing 25fps.. It will not be like running 50fps native of we can call it that.

Boy don't we all wish that was true. We would have no issues pushing 4k gaming or getting single gpu hitting 120fps. We could just double buff 60fps and get 120fps

Wouldn't that be sweet but sadly that isn't the case.

 

[shankly1985]

it is licenced, it isn't open, intel and AMD have a cross licencing agreement
anyone else wanting to produce x86-64 processors would have to get a licence from Intel for x86 and then a licence from AMD for x86-64... not really what I would call "OPEN"

Fair enough.. Least they still pushed the industry forward.

 

[bru]

That's were Gsync comes in. And that's why once you pass VRR window 36hz the module then must work out what refresh rate and add in frames.

For example
25fps Gsync will set 50hz two matching frames per second fit in the refresh rate = no screen tear.

15fps would be 60hz now the module will triple Buffer..
Gsync will only start doing its 1to1 once you get 36fps and above.

Personally I think you should read more into it. Ryan from pcper even replied to a comment saying them frames are invisible to the users.

PCM2 over in the monitor section posted a detailed post.

Don't for once here think am dissing Gsync because that would be completely wrong I find it very clever what they done to stop screen tear at the lowest window.

Ok so in my scenario above how many fps is it showing ?

 

[D.P.]

Fair enough.. Least they still pushed the industry forward.

Or kept it back with legacy architecture. Wide spread uptake of IS64 would move the industry forwards.

 

[shankly1985]

I am still scratching my head, as the 25 fps are sent and the buffered frames are also sent, so to me that makes 50 fps.... Sure I am wrong and math isn't my strong point but lol

It's 25fps with each frame over the top that fits correctly into a refresh of 50hz this then removes screen tear.

To remove screen tear a frame rate must match the refresh.

 

[Tonester0011]

I am still scratching my head, as the 25 fps are sent and the buffered frames are also sent, so to me that makes 50 fps.... Sure I am wrong and math isn't my strong point but lol

Thats the thing, I dont understand it but that makes sense.

Where's PCM2's explanation shank's has talked about but not posted? Will trust that mans word over any of the bug gang.

 

[bru]

It's 25fps with each frame over the top that fits correctly into a refresh of 50hz this then removes screen tear.

To remove screen tear a frame rate must match the refresh.

Sorry that is a contradiction.

It is either 50fps with 50Hz or 25fps at 50 Hz with screen tear.

 

[shankly1985]

Ok so in my scenario above how many fps is it showing ?

Depends on your refresh rate. If it's 60hz and you pushing 75fps then it will be 60fps viewable to the user. If it's 120hz then you would see 75 frames per second.

 

[Gregster]

Thats the thing, I dont understand it but that makes sense.

Where's PCM2's explanation shank's has talked about but not posted? Will trust that mans word over any of the bug gang.

Wow guys. This thread has become a bit messy, hasn't it?

I'm not going to name names, but some of what everybody who has contributed to this thread has said is correct. But there is also a bit of misinformation (or confused logic, if you prefer).

Regardless of whether a variable refresh rate technology (such as G-SYNC or FreeSync) is used, low frame rates remain low frame rates. It is always optimal to seek out the highest possible frame rate, which on this monitor means triple digits if you can manage it. The advantages of high frame rates include a significant reduction in motion blur and a more 'connected feel' to the gaming environment. It is something that lower frame rates simply can't match, regardless of what refresh rate the monitor decides to run at. You can see my assessment of low frame rates on any of my G-SYNC reviews. It is something that's quite subjective, of course. Some users can tolerate lower frame rates better than others. I personally find sudden dips very jarring and generally find the experience on a 144Hz monitor to be best in the triple digits, even approaching 60Hz/60fps is far from ideal.

Regardless of frame rate, though, there is obviously a huge bonus to matching the frame rate and refresh rate. This it seems everybody contributing to this thread grasps, the elimination of tearing and 'mismatch-related' stutter. However; when things fall below the floor of G-SYNC (<30Hz) things are always going to be sub-optimal, because the frame rate itself is so low that there is an obvious disconnect between the user and the game environment. There is an advantage to how G-SYNC does things, in that it makes sure the frame rate still multiplies evenly into the refresh rate. That gets rid of the sort of stuttering and tearing you can get from lack of 'alignment'. But low frame rates remain low frame rates. Motion blur levels are high and indeed motion can start to take on a sort of 'juddering' appearance, even if this isn't the same 'stuttering' you would see from the aforementioned misalignment. If for the sake of argument the game is running at 30fps and the monitor is running at 60Hz, then each frame is simply duplicated twice. This is nowhere near the same as running at a true 60fps and is exactly the same frame duplication as you get when running VSync with double or triple buffering.

 

[shankly1985]

Thats the thing, I dont understand it but that makes sense.

Where's PCM2's explanation shank's has talked about but not posted? Will trust that mans word over any of the bug gang.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27860470&postcount=444
Wow guys. This thread has become a bit messy, hasn't it?

I'm not going to name names, but some of what everybody who has contributed to this thread has said is correct. But there is also a bit of misinformation (or confused logic, if you prefer).

Regardless of whether a variable refresh rate technology (such as G-SYNC or FreeSync) is used, low frame rates remain low frame rates. It is always optimal to seek out the highest possible frame rate, which on this monitor means triple digits if you can manage it. The advantages of high frame rates include a significant reduction in motion blur and a more 'connected feel' to the gaming environment. It is something that lower frame rates simply can't match, regardless of what refresh rate the monitor decides to run at. You can see my assessment of low frame rates on any of my G-SYNC reviews. It is something that's quite subjective, of course. Some users can tolerate lower frame rates better than others. I personally find sudden dips very jarring and generally find the experience on a 144Hz monitor to be best in the triple digits, even approaching 60Hz/60fps is far from ideal.

Regardless of frame rate, though, there is obviously a huge bonus to matching the frame rate and refresh rate. This it seems everybody contributing to this thread grasps, the elimination of tearing and 'mismatch-related' stutter. However; when things fall below the floor of G-SYNC (<30Hz) things are always going to be sub-optimal, because the frame rate itself is so low that there is an obvious disconnect between the user and the game environment. There is an advantage to how G-SYNC does things, in that it makes sure the frame rate still multiplies evenly into the refresh rate. That gets rid of the sort of stuttering and tearing you can get from lack of 'alignment'. But low frame rates remain low frame rates. Motion blur levels are high and indeed motion can start to take on a sort of 'juddering' appearance, even if this isn't the same 'stuttering' you would see from the aforementioned misalignment. If for the sake of argument the game is running at 30fps and the monitor is running at 60Hz, then each frame is simply duplicated twice. This is nowhere near the same as running at a true 60fps and is exactly the same frame duplication as you get when running VSync with double or triple buffering.

 

[bru]

Surely a monitor doesn't care what the image is or where it came from, it just displays them one after the other at the refresh rate it is set at.
If it is set at 50Hz then for there to be no screen tearing it must be using 50 frames per second, even if half of those are duplicate frames.

 

[Final8y]

I am still scratching my head, as the 25 fps are sent and the buffered frames are also sent, so to me that makes 50 fps.... Sure I am wrong and math isn't my strong point but lol

The lack of understanding of the fundamentals of things is the biggest problem not the maths and when the fundamentals are understood then its not hard to work out that when something else is built on top of those fundamentals the limits are governed by the underlying fundamentals.

So some wild misinformed claims are easy to spot because the fundamentals go against it.

 

[shankly1985]

Surely a monitor doesn't care what the image is or where it came from, it just displays them one after the other at the refresh rate it is set at.
If it is set at 50Hz then for there to be no screen tearing it must be using 50 frames per second, even if half of those are duplicate frames.

Man think
Each frame is over lapped a mirror of each other. Take one single frame and then take another single frame. Place frame one over the top frame two, you now have two frames but only displaying one when sent to the display. 25+25 mirrored fit into a 50hz refresh removing screen tear.

Yiu only ever see 25 frames out of the other hidden 25fps.

Man I suck at explaining things.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

 

[Final8y]

Well its in the Name.

Double buffer, triple buffer and that's were it stays until the GPU is ready, that does not mean that the GPU is sending Double or Triple amount of frames to the screen, the GPU is holding Double or Triple amount of frames in the buffer that's all and i cant be bothered to go further at this time.