Theresa May confirms with Dimbleby that a Conservative majority will vote in the Snoopers' Charter

Can you provide any evidence that greater access to the metadata and information of random people on the internet will have stopped any terrorist incident?
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Doesn't seem to stop people travelling to syria.

so I'd imagine it's pointless. since these people must use the internet to find out how it's done, they must be going to radical muslim websites etc.

ISP's already monitor this crap? they already scan emails and text messages for keywords like murica?

A former US intelligence linguist says international spy agencies, such as Israel’s Mossad and Britain’s MI6, are also spying on Americans, collecting data on them in the United States.

“One of the things that is very clear here is that not only is our US intelligence resources gathering intelligence against Americans, but also foreign intelligence resources such as Mossad and MI6 and other international intelligence agencies are also collecting intelligence against the Americans within the United States,” Scott Rickard said told Press TV on Thursday.

He made the remarks after a US appeals court ruled that America’s National Security Agency (NSA) controversial mass collection of Americans’ phone records is illegal.

The court’s decision was in response to a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) arguing the data collection program violates privacy rights of Americans.
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If there spying on Americans they are spying on us too
 
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Steedie said:
You think the Tories are going to start WW3?
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come 2020, apprently there will no houses, no nhs, no food or money and now world war 3, if the comments on ehre are anything to go by.


personally i'm going to wager the next five years are going to go just like the last and basically like the other five before them.

it all just carries on the same but some people in a news room trying to make you think the sky is falling in.
 
Tefal said:
come 2020, apprently there will no houses, no nhs, no food or money and now world war 3, if the comments on ehre are anything to go by.


personally i'm going to wager the next five years are going to go just like the last and basically like the other five before them.

it all just carries on the same but some people in a news room trying to make you think the sky is falling in.
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Fiat justita ruat caelum.
 
Tefal said:
well until one side starts losing and they go you know what **** it lets just shoot them.
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Not if the losing side has had all there missiles and nuclear weapons hacked and can't use them, dealing with ground troops is easy when you disable most of their air support equipment
 
robgmun said:
Not if the losing side has had all there missiles and nuclear weapons hacked and can't use them, dealing with ground troops is easy when you disable most of their air support equipment
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pretty sure thats why they dont attach any of those systems to the internet....
 
Moses said:
Why would the latter not be okay, if the oversight/checks and balances were flawless, hypothetically speaking?
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if the system was perfect and not abused then it would simply be wasteful.

but snowden kinda showed that the system is regularly abused and far from secure which makes it instead a massive risk.

how long till a disc containing hundreds of people email videos or whatsapp convos is left on a train or in a cab by some inept civil servant?
 
Moses said:
Human error can lead to critical stuff being affected. Think Stuxnet - 'herp derp, I'll just plug my USB flash drive into this computer... what could possibly go wrong :cool:'.
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id like to think that the people who design our nuclear missile systems thought to at least take the old school measure of sticking a bit of glue in the sockets.


or like our computers at work they're just in a box so you cant put a stick in for that exact reason (they're terrified of something affecting the system its an instantly dismissible offense to put a usb stick or plug your phone into any pc)
 
Moses said:
Human error can lead to critical stuff being affected. Think Stuxnet - 'herp derp, I'll just plug my USB flash drive into this computer... what could possibly go wrong :cool:'.
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Had a good a laugh once at work when an IT guy who was very vocal about computer security, etc. got impatient and plugged his personal laptop into a closed (production) system to install a printer driver and infected the whole thing with some malware taking it offline for the rest of the day (costing a fair bit).
 
Moses said:
Ah, but the Devil's in the detail on that point. DRIPA/any law created because of a directive which is later struck down is essentially fine until it's judicially reviewed... which is happening at the mo' (David Davis and Tom Watson are doing that, iirc). So they aren't not complying with EU law, that we know of, at the moment... :p
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So you're essentially saying in a few months ISP will only have to hold 6 months worth of data max? Or in reality the government will just change the law to make sure it is legal in some shape or form. Unfortunately that's the problem with governments, they can change the law to suit themselves, and everyone has to adhere to it...

Moses said:
The closing of loopholes/inconsistencies/etc is one of the things the recently published Intelligence and Security Committee's report talked about fixing with a new, comprehensive set of rules which sorts out the problems of having a load of different pieces all forming the mosaic which is our current system.
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Unfortunately sticking in a couple of positives does not outweigh the negatives...

Moses said:
Why would the latter not be okay, if the oversight/checks and balances were flawless, hypothetically speaking?
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How about we subsequently modify your statement to "if the oversight/checks and balances were flawless, and eternal". The problem is not necessarily in the present but more importantly the future and what legislation is subsequently brought in. Legislation like this is never removed again.

Moses said:
What about attacks which have been prevented/nipped in the bud and didn't hit the headlines?

Then where you say they knew about people - perhaps they did they know about their interactions with everyone relevant when it comes to establishing what they were doing at different points, so it may have helped but if it had we might not know.

And also there may well be stuff we don't know about - with the recent secret trial, for example, loads of the evidence presented is secret.
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So the media aren't reporting hugely important trials they could big up to sell huge numbers of newspapers with? Or the trials are being held in such secret that they aren't even allowed to report them? Or these plots are nipped in the bud with extrajudicial punishment? Now that really is scary.

There is the question of what was shown in the secret evidence, but then, whatever it was, it wasn't very influential it would appear. Besides, unless the CPS/Police are lying they caught this guy by police work and warrants.

Moses said:
It depends who has access to the data, and under what circumstances. That's the more important side of it, imo.

Put it this way,

I know it's a big assumption, but assume the regulation/control is strict. Would you still be against it? I can see the problem of them having the metadata and fairly random people being able to see it, but if it's tightly controlled I don't see the big issue (obviously how that tight control is defined and implement is key, but I don't think it's an insurmountable task to work out how to do that).
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The major problem I have is the older I get the more anti-establishment I appear to be getting. I learned first hand from a young age how people in power either corrupt things or misjudge things, causing major issues for those on the receiving end. Maybe it's not helping I read papers like the Guardian now... Either way giving people and organisations more power is never a good thing, especially under guises of "Terrorism", which has done little to change our lives directly, but a lot to change the way we live and are governed (due to laws brought in by government under the "terrorism" label).

So to answer you question, even in an ideal world, no, I don't believe mass collection of data should ever be allowed. Privacy is important no matter who you are, this is why I find it very odd some are campaigning for special cavats for certain groups of people. Why should journalists (as an example) be immune to some anti privacy laws when other law abiding citizens would not? You lose your privacy if you have done something wrong, not as a matter of course "just in case".

Innocent until proven guilty is the foundation of our justice system and mass collection of our data, without our consent, is just another chip taken foundation stone of our entire justice system. Either way, the reality is it won't be tightly controlled, it will end up in the hands of far more than those that ever need it, much like many of the other similar laws.
 
Tefal said:
if the system was perfect and not abused then it would simply be wasteful.

but snowden kinda showed that the system is regularly abused and far from secure which makes it instead a massive risk.

how long till a disc containing hundreds of people email videos or whatsapp convos is left on a train or in a cab by some inept civil servant?
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How long before thousands of peoples webcam chats surface - the ones GCHQ and the NSA broke in to Yahoo to get. Privacy shouldn't exist according to governments.
 
If it is voted in, it's just further confirmation of my leaving this cesspit, i cant live in a society that wants to be perceived as the villain.
 
phil_c_ said:
Anyone who doesn't think they 'snoop' already are delusional... All this does is give them legalality to do so at free will
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This, its just rubber stamping what they are already doing, and it has nothing to do with blue or red, im sure labour would have done the same at some point.
 
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