The labour Leader thread...

Well, nobody with half a grasp on macroeconomics isn't going to deny that because they quite simply didn't overspend.

Yet Liz Kendall freely concedes that they did......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3081393/Liz-Kendall-admits-Labour-DID-spend-crash.html

Until Labour wake up and smell the coffee, they haven't a hope of re-election, and quite rightly.

The very fact Blair had to re-brand Labour as "new" tells you how flawed their old / default stance is in the eyes of the electorate, as last weeks outcome clearly demonstrated.
 
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That last question time chat where the audience asked questions, and Ed said 'We didn't overspend, I know you think that I don't agree, we Didn't overspend', He lost massive amount of votes in those few lines.

You are correct, of course, but to me that doesn't mean they need to backpedal, it means they need to do a better job of making their case in a clear and concise way and refusing to just accept the tory slander about overspending because if you buckle on that then you're going to end up buckling on everything, and then what's the point of even being a separate party?
 
TBH I think they've now lost their two 'x factor' potential candidates. I didn't like Chuka Umunna at all, but there was potential for him coming across well to lots of people... and obviously Dan Jarvis sacked it off asap. I saw this, the other day,

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/chuka14.jpg[/]

[url]http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2014/05/27/chuka-umunna-vs-yvette-cooper-for-labour-leadership/[/url][/QUOTE]

Love it! Why didn't they use this last time?


[quote="ubersonic, post: 28042915"]It would be worth it for headlines like:

"BJ gives Putin heartache"

"BJ disappoints Obama"

:D[/QUOTE]

Obama welcomes BJ. :D

[quote="Stretch, post: 28043720"]
The Labour party is utterly lost, a total identity crisis.
[/QUOTE]

Does it seem dishonest to anyone else that they are looking for a path to win an election rather then decide what they want to be and stick with it?
 
They had a golden chance to reduce this countries debt to GDP ratio and instead they spent it instead and because of the resection our debt to GBP won't even hit that level for over a generation. Thanks to this policy we now pay nearly as much in interest on debt as we spend on our armed forces, this is what people want to see Labour acknowledge.

What a load of old *******s.

Most of the borrowing went on bailing out the banks, which has nothing party political about it.

Even with that borrowing, it's still not historically that high as a proportion of GDP. But then that doesn't fit the austerity, associated cuts and privatisation agenda does it?

Better off harping on about debt whilst simultaneously cutting taxes. It's just illiterate. Or worse.
 
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They had a golden chance to reduce this countries debt to GDP ratio and instead they spent it instead and because of the resection our debt to GBP won't even hit that level for over a generation. Thanks to this policy we now pay nearly as much in interest on debt as we spend on our armed forces, this is what people want to see Labour acknowledge.
Are you not asking the Conservatives to acknowledge the damage to growth they have done by excessive austerity costing us billions upon billions to our economy in lost growth?.

Had Labour 'saved' we wouldn't have had the growth to save with, it's nowhere near as simple as you believe it to be.

You are correct, of course, but to me that doesn't mean they need to backpedal, it means they need to do a better job of making their case in a clear and concise way and refusing to just accept the tory slander about overspending because if you buckle on that then you're going to end up buckling on everything, and then what's the point of even being a separate party?
Exactly, the issue is the truth is usually more complicated & harder to put across than a laughable simplistic 'house finance' view on the economy - ergo the electorate favour the simple lie over the harder & more complicated reality.
 
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They had a golden chance to reduce this countries debt to GDP ratio and instead they spent it instead and because of the resection our debt to GBP won't even hit that level for over a generation. Thanks to this policy we now pay nearly as much in interest on debt as we spend on our armed forces, this is what people want to see Labour acknowledge.

you act like we spend a lot on our armed forces.
2% of gdp is interest?

wow massive amount seriously :rolleyes:
 
Are you not asking the Conservatives to acknowledge the damage to growth they have done by excessive austerity costing us billions upon billions to our economy in lost growth?.

Had Labour 'saved' we wouldn't have had the growth to save with, it's nowhere near as simple as you believe it to be.

You might very well think that, you might very well be right, but the first statement isn't based upon fact, it is conjecture. What we have is an economy in its current position, and a population who don't want money spent on benefits, and who are in general quite happy with things like benefits caps, and reduction in government spending.
We'll see if they change their minds in the next two years of hard austerity, they might. Labour whining on about not overspending will keep them unelectable, as austerity to 'balance the books' the same thing all the muppets have spoken regarding is necessary. If these books must indeed be balanced.

While labour claim not to overspend, and the Tories squeeze harder to 'balance' who do you think the public believe when even with squeezing the books remain unbalanced?
They will not believe the 'we need to spend more' crowd. As that's how is is phrased, rather than we need to invest for the future with our thirty year plan to sort NHS and education that they should try spouting instead.
 
You might very well think that, you might very well be right, but the first statement isn't based upon fact, it is conjecture. What we have is an economy in its current position, and a population who don't want money spent on benefits, and who are in general quite happy with things like benefits caps, and reduction in government spending.
We'll see if they change their minds in the next two years of hard austerity, they might. Labour whining on about not overspending will keep them unelectable, as austerity to 'balance the books' the same thing all the muppets have spoken regarding is necessary. If these books must indeed be balanced.

While labour claim not to overspend, and the Tories squeeze harder to 'balance' who do you think the public believe when even with squeezing the books remain unbalanced?
They will not believe the 'we need to spend more' crowd. As that's how is is phrased, rather than we need to invest for the future with our thirty year plan to sort NHS and education that they should try spouting instead.
I agree the message Labour put across was pathetic, mostly because they lacked a single decent public speaker who can eloquently explain the causes.

Investment is the key as you say & how it should be phrased, investment in infrastructure, education, healthcare - working it as 'spending' makes it sound like the UK was purchasing 500,000 games consoles a week.

Eurozone-structural1.jpg


"Economist Martin Wolf analyzed the relationship between cumulative GDP growth in 2008–2012 and total reduction in budget deficits due to austerity policies (see chart at right) in several European countries during April 2012. He concluded, "In all, there is no evidence here that large fiscal contractions [budget deficit reductions] bring benefits to confidence and growth that offset the direct effects of the contractions. They bring exactly what one would expect: small contractions bring recessions and big contractions bring depressions." Changes in budget balances (deficits or surpluses) explained approximately 53% of the change in GDP, according to the equation derived from the IMF data used in his analysis.[54]

Similarly, economist Paul Krugman analyzed the relationship between GDP and reduction in budget deficits for several European countries in April 2012 and concluded that austerity was slowing growth. He wrote: "this also implies that 1 euro of austerity yields only about 0.4 euros of reduced deficit, even in the short run. No wonder, then, that the whole austerity enterprise is spiralling into disaster"

"Around 2011, the IMF started issuing guidance suggesting that austerity could be harmful when applied without regard to an economy's underlying fundamentals. In 2013 it published a detailed analysis concluding that "if financial markets focus on the short-term behavior of the debt ratio, or if country authorities engage in repeated rounds of tightening in an effort to get the debt ratio to converge to the official target," austerity policies could slow or reverse economic growth and inhibit full employment. Keynesian economists and commentators such as Paul Krugman have suggested that this has in fact been occurring, with austerity yielding worse results in proportion to the extent to which it has been imposed"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity#Eurozone

It's no secret that the government has failed to hit every single target they set, it's not my standards they are failing on but their own.
 
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I see your right hand column is a forecast.
What were the actual growth figures for all the countries in the five year timeframe?
What fiscal tightening did that actually achieve?
 
And 2% of ~ 2.7Trillion* is what exactly? It's hardly small!

* a quick google of the UK's GDP....

GDP: £1,789.1 billion(1)
interest £59.1
up 7 billion from last year but gdp jumped up from GDP: £1,720.4 billion

It's not the massive head ache the tories want everyone to believe
 
Thought Burnham was quite impressive on Marr just now, even though I disagree with him on Europe (free to move, not free to claim /ugh). Sounds like he's lining up Rachel Reeves to be his Shadow Chancellor, which should be interesting.
 
just turned on the news after sleeping off last nights shift and lo and behold labour still dancing to unites tune. seems boris will be pm come 2016 then.
 
Typical socialist then.

Snout soo deep in the trough that he has to breathe through his ears!

(For various reasons, Not necessarily just this one, I reckon that Labour head office actually told him to withdraw)
It was also in the papers today that he was accepting donations from tax avoidance firms.
 
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