Energy rip off,

Zenduri · 7 Jul 2015 at 19:56

OldCoals said:
Why is pay as you go more expensive?

Cost of

*Meter itself (more expensive)
*The keys for it
*Additional staffing costs for call center and back office teams
*Engineer training and installation/removal costs of the meter
*Software costs to support the key meter systems.
*Legal and admin costs (installing on warrant etc)

The admin costs alone represent a large cost, the time taken to deal with one customer fully and to get a prepayment meter installed is silly, then to manage that customer who will most likely have further payment issues is again costly.

wazza300 · 7 Jul 2015 at 19:56

el_dazza said:
On the flip side, there are those who are on credit and don't pay... You seem very against prepayment customers and are adamant they must use credit but for some people that just isn't an option. If people get behind on credit then their DD might go up and one month that might be too much or whatever, some people just like to pay and go and be done with it.

+1 to this ^^

id hate unexpected bills,atleast I know where I am atm,but feel penalised for it

Zenduri · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:01

el_dazza said:
On the flip side, there are those who are on credit and don't pay... You seem very against prepayment customers and are adamant they must use credit but for some people that just isn't an option. If people get behind on credit then their DD might go up and one month that might be too much or whatever, some people just like to pay and go and be done with it.

The current meter in my house is a prepayment and has been since I moved in 2 years ago. If you don't believe me I'll go take a picture of it.

It has no debt and never has had since I moved in. I know I'm paying a higher price but I'm a relatively low user so it's not too bad. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to look to get it changed as I haven't done anything about it as I was being lazy and I'm fed up of having to top it up once a month. Spoke to my land lady who said it was fine and I just need to call my provider to book an appointment.

It is ironic for me to give this advice I know, and I have laughed about it but I am in the perfect position as I am well informed re the situation and have first hand experience.

Danthus · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:02

HybridX said:
Cost of

*Meter itself (more expensive)
*The keys for it
*Additional staffing costs for call center and back office teams
*Engineer training and installation/removal costs of the meter
*Software costs to support the key meter systems.
*Legal and admin costs (installing on warrant etc)

The admin costs alone represent a large cost, the time taken to deal with one customer fully and to get a prepayment meter installed is silly, then to manage that customer who will most likely have further payment issues is again costly.

Some of those costs though are one time only, as a when a person moves in or out of a house, the meter is still there hence you don't need engineers to install and remove them.

They keys will cost pennies.

godinman · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:02

HybridX said:
That's not really the attitude to take mate. RTM'd There are a lot of reasons people aren't making the right choices. Sometimes it is ignorance but sometimes its because they just don't know

Lol, rtm away you ridiculous individual.

Even if the reason isn't laziness or stupidity, who cares about £5 a month?

Danthus · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:03

godinman said:
Lol, rtm away you ridiculous individual.

Even if the reason isn't laziness or stupidity, who cares about £5 a month?

£5 a month to someone living hand to mouth is quite a lot.

el_dazza · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:05

HybridX said:
The current meter in my house is a prepayment and has been since I moved in 2 years ago. If you don't believe me I'll go take a picture of it.

It has no debt and never has had since I moved in. I know I'm paying a higher price but I'm a relatively low user so it's not too bad. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to look to get it changed as I haven't done anything about it as I was being lazy and I'm fed up of having to top it up once a month. Spoke to my land lady who said it was fine and I just need to call my provider to book an appointment.

It is ironic for me to give this advice I know, and I have laughed about it but I am in the perfect position as I am well informed re the situation and have first hand experience.

Ha, and I work for a prepay supplier and i'm on credit

Trouble is with quantum and legacy meters is they are outdated and are prone to errors. Look at the issue last year where people paid up to 2% more because the meters sucked and didn't calculate kwh correctly. This is why we work with smart meters, we KNOW what the customer is using and can advise on energy saving, the customer themselves can see exactly what they use, daily/weekly average cost, estimated days left, higher emergency credit, we can order the right levels of gas with an accurate AQ (not that the AQ massively affects the customer)

Zenduri · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:07

el_dazza said:
On the flip side, there are those who are on credit and don't pay... You seem very against prepayment customers and are adamant they must use credit but for some people that just isn't an option. If people get behind on credit then their DD might go up and one month that might be too much or whatever, some people just like to pay and go and be done with it.

wazza300 said:
+1 to this ^^

id hate unexpected bills,atleast I know where I am atm,but feel penalised for it

For someone who works for one of the big six your message is very mixed. If people provide readings they wont get estimated bills. It's called personal responsibility. If/when they have a SMART meter installed they wont get estimated bills as it will be polled readings.

If customers help themselves to ensure the energy company has the means to obtain readings or they provide the readings then there should be no scary DD increases or decreases.

@Wazza Wouldn't a little LCD display sat on your desk saying you have used £2.40 today and £44 over the last 30 days not tell you more accurately how much you are using?

Zenduri · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:08

godinman said:
Lol, rtm away you ridiculous individual.

Even if the reason isn't laziness or stupidity, who cares about £5 a month?

Go back to your bridge

godinman · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:08

OldCoals said:
£5 a month to someone living hand to mouth is quite a lot.

I find that very hard to believe, if 16p a day is going to tip you over the edge then you're probably living in a cardboard box anyway. And quite frankly any form of heating in that case would be a major fire hazard.

godinman · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:10

HybridX said:
Go back to your bridge

I am not trolling, I find this 'news' story ridiculous. At what per annum income where heating isn't already paid for in benefits is £5 pm going to make any difference whatsoever?

gothic_hobbit · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:12

Avenged7Fold said:
Worst thing is, all the energy companies are just as bad as eachother.

No 'nonsense' Sherlock

el_dazza · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:13

HybridX said:
For someone who works for one of the big six your message is very mixed. If people provide readings they wont get estimated bills. It's called personal responsibility. If/when they have a SMART meter installed they wont get estimated bills as it will be polled readings.

If customers help themselves to ensure the energy company has the means to obtain readings or they provide the readings then there should be no scary DD increases or decreases.

@Wazza Wouldn't a little LCD display sat on your desk saying you have used £2.40 today and £44 over the last 30 days not tell you more accurately how much you are using?

I don't work for one of the big six.

You're quite right but I'm willing to bet a LOT of people don't give readings and then moan when they get an estimated bill through. Trouble is these people will then get behind with their payments but it'll be the supplier's fault, naturally!

People should aways have the option, just like a mobile, but those on prepayment should get a fair deal too.

Did you say you worked for npower btw? 16.842p per kwh with you lot on PP isnt it? No wonder you love credit customers so much because that is just ripping people off compared to any supplier!

Zenduri · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:18

el_dazza said:
I don't work for one of the big six.

You're quite right but I'm willing to bet a LOT of people don't give readings and then moan when they get an estimated bill through. Trouble is these people will then get behind with their payments but it'll be the supplier's fault, naturally!

People should aways have the option, just like a mobile, but those on prepayment should get a fair deal too.

Did you say you worked for npower btw? 16.842p per kwh with you lot on PP isnt it? No wonder you love credit customers so much because that is just ripping people off compared to any supplier!

Lol my bad got you mixed up with someone else in this thread who works for Npower!

Your first sentence though is essentially saying people get behind because they aren't responsible for their own bills or actions. Companies shouldn't have to hold peoples hands to tell them to check their bills are to actual reads to ensure they are paying the correct amount. This is common sense.

FYI I don't work for Npower and when i originally started in the industry it was dealing with business' but obviously i gleamed some of the residential side too.

As i said before this is a lot more energy companies could be doing to help customers, but there is a hell of a lot customers could be doing to help themselves.

darael · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:25

el_dazza said:
They use the same meters as us but they configure them differently. They really shouldn't have this issue but somehow manage to make a balls up of it. Have you got the touch screen IHD?

Yes, the IHD I have is the Pipit 500. OVO have told me they don't show meter readings and it's not looking likely that it's a feature that will be updated as they are third-party devices.

Rofflay · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:26

If/when they have a SMART meter installed

There is no if/when they will see to that. Everyone in the country will have to pay for it too. How unfair is that 12 billion footed by the consumer? And all of this was done by Milliband too grrrr. It is hard not to sound angry but this kind of crap tend to happen all the time. BT is another prime example hoarding £1 billion for UEFA rights yet begging for state aid to the tune of 500m for FTTC rollout.

16.842p per kwh with you lot on PP isnt it?

It was actually around 17.xx before they made 10% cuts due to the oil price falling. But that took them a good few months i know i checked my mums and it is now around 15.89 or so.

el_dazza · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:31

Lol sorry, both done it now

Of course it's common sense but the way do business eliminates the need for customers to really do anything other than keep some credit on their meter. It's very hard to trust everyone when it comes to credit and you can never really tell what people will do.

You could say in that sense we allow people to be lazy (can top up online as well etc) but it just helps those out that don't want bills really.

There will always be reliable customers who do the right things and pay on time. There will always be prepayment customers who just don't want bills. There will always be bad credit customers and those that aren't interested in helping themselves. As a supplier your business needs to be prepared for that, with prepayment you know people will pay or they just won't have energy and there is never any hiding from debt because you can (as i'm sure you know) have a recovery rate on the PP meter. There's also the side of paying too much, those in credit with a supplier will probably have to fight to get it back and it would take weeks. They benefit from your money in their bank account for a period of time, some people really don't like that.

el_dazza · 7 Jul 2015 at 20:48

darael said:
Yes, the IHD I have is the Pipit 500. OVO have told me they don't show meter readings and it's not looking likely that it's a feature that will be updated as they are third-party devices.

Yeah, they're ours

As I said, OVO configure them differently sadly.

PlacidCasual · 7 Jul 2015 at 21:30

Small suppliers are exempt from some of the more onerous renewable requirements giving them a clear price advantage over the major suppliers.

The CMA found no evidence of market fixing in the generation market and went so far as to say much of the recent prices increases are directly related to Government renewable energy policies.

The energy market is broken, politicians broke it and don't know how to fix it.

SonniLombardi · 7 Jul 2015 at 21:44

Got a letter the other day from eon saying that when I was a customer in 2011 they overcharged me or something, they sent me a cheque which was attached the bottom, I thought nice touch! so I look at the cheque.

0.49 pence.