RMT to ballot for strike action.

There's no reason trains can't be automated in this day and age, even automated cars are almost feasible.
Automating a train is far simpler in comparison.

they could do with upgrading to barriers on the platforms as per the jubilee line

the amount of strikes they'd get whenever the RMT gets wind of it would probably mean they'd have to do it all very secretively and introduce them very quickly, I can't see there ever likely being a soothe transition to driver less trains, as soon as the trial them on one line you'll get a whole bunch of strikes, might even require legislation to outlaw strikes in the transition period
 
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they could do with upgrading to barriers on the platforms as per the jubilee line

the amount of strikes they'd get whenever the RMT gets wind of it would probably mean they'd have to do it all very secretively and introduce them very quickly, I can't see there ever likely being a soothe transition to driver less trains, as soon as the trial them on one line you'll get a whole bunch of strikes, might even require legislation to outlaw strikes in the transition period

Good luck considering how much variations in rolling stock there are. It may work on a closed network like the tube where all the trains are of the same design and platform to train interface is the same.

We still use signals that were installed in the 60s. I'm driving trains built in the 80s with some stock from the late 70s. The railway takes a long time to move on. All the signalling would have to be redone, the track, the stations and every train would have to be the same.

It's nowhere near as simple as people think.
 
Good luck considering how much variations in rolling stock there are. It may work on a closed network like the tube where all the trains are of the same design and platform to train interface is the same.

We still use signals that were installed in the 60s. I'm driving trains built in the 80s with some stock from the late 70s. The railway takes a long time to move on. All the signalling would have to be redone, the track, the stations and every train would have to be the same.

It's nowhere near as simple as people think.

I work in the automation field so have a fair bit of experience upgrading old systems and, it is relatively easy. Automating a train doesn't have that many variables compared to over industries. The only issue I can see is location tracking due to lack of GPS but that can be worked around with rfid's, light barriers or good old limit switches.
True the variation In stock would make it difficult but anything this big would probably mean whole new rolling stock.

The hardest part would be the station up grade and communication paths but that can be done during the night. The only thing stopping it is money, once the funding of wages tips too far one way it would be stupid not to change over.
 
The last strike before this was in April last year and only affected some lines as I think it was just an RMT strike.

Maybe you're thinking the planned one in May happened?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/07/london-underground-workers-tube-strike-sacking-tfl

You missed the one in March this year... So that makes two this year so far... There is also plenty of evidence show in the links above (although there downs theme to be a definitive list that I can find).

This is the first full strike in a decade, but there are multiple strikes with only one or two unions that shut down parts of the tube making it a pain to get in regularly.

My point still stands, either the only publicly run public transport service is poorly managed or unions are taking the pee.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/07/london-underground-workers-tube-strike-sacking-tfl

You missed the one in March this year... So that makes two this year so far... There is also plenty of evidence show in the links above (although there downs theme to be a definitive list that I can find).

This is the first full strike in a decade, but there are multiple strikes with only one or two unions that shut down parts of the tube making it a pain to get in regularly.

My point still stands, either the only publicly run public transport service is poorly managed or unions are taking the pee.

That one was the best, so your colleague failed two, yes two random alcohol tests, and you strike over it?

******* unbelievable.
 
That one was the best, so your colleague failed two, yes two random alcohol tests, and you strike over it?

You realise TfL lost their tribunal over that one, right? And that they broke their own rules in the treatment of the worker in question?
 
You realise TfL lost their tribunal over that one, right? And that they broke their own rules in the treatment of the worker in question?

No, I didn't, I was under the impression it never went to a tribunal.

Hit me up with a link please, I can't find anything online to support that.
 
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/07/london-underground-workers-tube-strike-sacking-tfl

You missed the one in March this year... So that makes two this year so far... There is also plenty of evidence show in the links above (although there downs theme to be a definitive list that I can find).

This is the first full strike in a decade, but there are multiple strikes with only one or two unions that shut down parts of the tube making it a pain to get in regularly.

My point still stands, either the only publicly run public transport service is poorly managed or unions are taking the pee.

I did completely miss that one, it was at the weekend so I didn't notice.
 
No, I didn't, I was under the impression it never went to a tribunal.

Hit me up with a link please, I can't find anything online to support that.

I'm sorry, I realise I was confusing two incidents and I was thinking of this one. My bad.

Still, it's the case that the strike was over them using an alcohol test kit that successfully detects diabetes as a positive test on a man with diabetes and getting a positive test.
 
That one was the best, so your colleague failed two, yes two random alcohol tests, and you strike over it?

IIRC the guy in question had a 29 year unblemished record and the test was conducted incorrectly which invalidated the result, LUL also failed to comply with their own guidelines. RMT actually campaigned for months to attempt to get him reinstated before opting to hold a strike vote and even after they offered to call off the strike if LUL agreed to reinstate him following an employment tribunal.
 
I'm sorry, I realise I was confusing two incidents and I was thinking of this one. My bad.

Still, it's the case that the strike was over them using an alcohol test kit that successfully detects diabetes as a positive test on a man with diabetes and getting a positive test.

IIRC the guy in question had a 29 year unblemished record and the test was conducted incorrectly which invalidated the result, LUL also failed to comply with their own guidelines. RMT actually campaigned for months to attempt to get him reinstated before opting to hold a strike vote and even after they offered to call off the strike if LUL agreed to reinstate him following an employment tribunal.

An unblemished record means nothing, things change. I'm sure Ted Bundy had an unblemished murder record until he hit his 20s, didn't stop him killing a bunch of women.

As for the test, he was caught twice, what are the odds of a false positive on the basis on diabetes? Clutching at straws, if there was a chance the decision could be reversed you can be damn sure it would've gone to a tribunal.
 
I'm sorry, I realise I was confusing two incidents and I was thinking of this one. My bad.

Still, it's the case that the strike was over them using an alcohol test kit that successfully detects diabetes as a positive test on a man with diabetes and getting a positive test.

Should a Man with diabetes (And who I imagine is failing to manage his condition, otherwise he wouldn't have enough ketone in his system to fail an alcohol test) be allowed to drive trains in the first place!
 
I'm sorry, I realise I was confusing two incidents and I was thinking of this one. My bad.

Still, it's the case that the strike was over them using an alcohol test kit that successfully detects diabetes as a positive test on a man with diabetes and getting a positive test.

IIRC the guy in question had a 29 year unblemished record and the test was conducted incorrectly which invalidated the result, LUL also failed to comply with their own guidelines. RMT actually campaigned for months to attempt to get him reinstated before opting to hold a strike vote and even after they offered to call off the strike if LUL agreed to reinstate him following an employment tribunal.

An unblemished record means nothing, things change. I'm sure Ted Bundy had an unblemished murder record until he hit his 20s, didn't stop him killing a bunch of women.

As for the test, he was caught twice, what are the odds of a false positive on the basis of diabetes? If there was a chance the decision could be reversed you can be damn sure it would've gone to a tribunal. LU say their equipment can't be 'confused', RMT claim it can .... hard to know who to believe with their own agendas.

I'm still not seeing anything about LUL not complying with their own guidelines, which ones?
 
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I'm sorry, I realise I was confusing two incidents and I was thinking of this one. My bad.

Still, it's the case that the strike was over them using an alcohol test kit that successfully detects diabetes as a positive test on a man with diabetes and getting a positive test.

if his diabetes is that badly managed hes failing the test hes a huge liability and should be sacked.


what i dont get is we dont let anyone work inside wing tanks if they've got diabetes as if they lose conciousness they may be in there too long before they're found but we're letting them drive a tube train while not managing their condition?
 
As for the test, he was caught twice

No he wasn't, that headline was published by the telegraph but never backed up, in fact LUL refused a second test.


what are the odds of a false positive on the basis of diabetes?

Depends on the person, type of diabetes and how much they have drank in the last 48h, the important thing is that they gave a person with diabetes an unsuitable breath test that was unpassable and didn't allow a urine test, they then fired him on the result of that invalid test (in breach of their own rules) dispite 29 years of exemplary service.


If there was a chance the decision could be reversed you can be damn sure it would've gone to a tribunal.

Tibuneral was offered, RMT offered to call off the strike in exchange for a tribunal and LUL agreeing to abide by the ruling if it ruled for reinstatement, LUL opted to take the strike instead.


LU say their equipment can't be 'confused', RMT claim it can .... hard to know who to believe with their own agendas.

How about independant sources, like the ones LUL used when they drew up the guidelines that they broke. In fact one of LUL’s own doctors stated that T2 diabetes can give false positives on hand held machines.


I'm still not seeing anything about LUL not complying with their own guidelines, which ones?

They are not supposed to use the breath tests on diabetics they are supposed to do urine tests instead (or at least use urine test to attempt to collaborate the breath test), they are not supposed to declare a test positive before conducting a medical review, they are not supposed to sack anyone before that either.
 
Tibuneral was offered, RMT offered to call off the strike in exchange for a tribunal and LUL agreeing to abide by the ruling if it ruled for reinstatement, LUL opted to take the strike instead.

So why didn't they take it further? LUL don't have to agree if someone wants to take them to court for unfair/wrongful dismissal

How about independant sources, like the ones LUL used when they drew up the guidelines that they broke. In fact one of LUL’s own doctors stated that T2 diabetes can give false positives on hand held machines.

I appreciate that it's possible, but what are the odds? 1 in a million means it's possible, doesn't make it likely.

They are not supposed to use the breath tests on diabetics they are supposed to do urine tests instead (or at least use urine test to attempt to collaborate the breath test), they are not supposed to declare a test positive before conducting a medical review, they are not supposed to sack anyone before that either.

So why haven't they taken it further? I mean, all these things the LUL have supposedly glaringly done wrong, yet no one is looking to take it further?

This is all clutching at straws imo. Regardless as Tefal said if the driver is mismanaging their medical condition so badly he shouldn't be at the wheel.
 
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