Gay marriage legalised in the whole US by the supreme court

[estebanrey]

I have an interest in history. Mainly English history, but there's a lot of overlap with other parts of the world.

The more I learn about the past, the more I am glad I live now. Society is hugely better than it was in the past in almost all ways. The world is a great deal less full of filth and hate and war than it was in the past and "low morals" is a very subjective assessment. I regard modern morality as being very much higher than the morality you're thinking of and in any case that largely didn't really exist. It's about as realistic as the courtly romances of medieval times - there's bits of it that were realistic in some ways for some people.

Sadly there are many religious fanatics than think allowing gay marriage is a greater evil than say slavery was. They don't agree with slavery but see it as more of an 'unfortunate incident' and gay marriage as an abomination which should never be tolerated.

 

[Tefal]

Half the hatred comes from people like you who hate others for being themselves! People who take their religions way too seriously. Jesus ****ing Christ.

What's ironic is based on his actions Jesus would likely be hanging his head in shame at the things people like koolpc use his name to justify.

 

[Tefal]

Sadly there are many religious fanatics than think allowing gay marriage is a greater evil than say slavery was. They don't agree with slavery but see it as more of an 'unfortunate incident' and gay marriage as an abomination which should never be tolerated.

doesn't help that most of the religions they follow see slavery as perfectly acceptable and even set out rules for it.

 

[Woden]

Jesus spent his time wandering around with a bunch of guys instead of settling down like a good Jewish boy.

 

[estebanrey]

What's ironic is based on his actions Jesus would likely be hanging his head in shame at the things people like koolpc use his name to justify.

Much like how the religious right in the US are so against immigration of any kind. I don't think Jesus would be saying "build a massive wall at the border so poor Mexicans can't come here to rape our women and claim welfare".

The people who most identify with Jesus, ironically seem to have the least in common with him.

Jesus was a big advocate of the 'golden rule' which lead Paul to say "love thy neighbour". Somehow religious right-wingers have added the asterisk of "unless they're gay or an immigrant in which case refer to the Old Testament" to that.

 

[Angilion]

I think that today the world has gone wild. People really dont care about each other that much. Families are splitting up all the time. The world is full of hatred. Yes, this has been happening since the very beginning but i really think that the human race cannot get as low as it is in these times.

The morality of the human race is at an all time low.

You should study history. Pretty much any point in history, really, but I think the point would be well made by studying Elizabethan England since that is widely known as a golden age and a flowering of the renaissance. When you've understood how bloody awful it was in so many ways, bear in mind that England at that time was famous for its tolerance and freedom and rightly so. It was a lot freer and more tolerant than many places. People fled to England for safety. Sure, you could be killed for many things including such heinous crimes as printing anything without the Queen's permission but you'd probably be slowly strangled to death by hanging (the neck-breaking "long drop" came later) and that was a much less bad death than you'd get elsewhere. Although you might well be tortured beforehand if the authorities thought you might know something useful. Torture was perfectly moral in those days, you see. Along with many other things that I personally think modern morality is right to condemn, like 12 year olds being given the choice of prostitution or starving to death, for example.

Anyone who thinks that the morality of the human race is at an all time low lacks knowledge of the past. The real past, not an idealistic and almost entirely fictional "past".

 

[Raymond Lin]

Here is the crux of it.

We are all equal, race, gender, colour of your skin, bucked teeth, tall, short, ginger with freckles included. That includes sexuality preference or what one would like for breakfast.

That may not be true in all corners of society but we are getting there slowly and the sooner we get there, the more peaceful the world would be. This law takes us one step closer and we should be all the more grateful for it.

 

[Angilion]

No, i dont preach. You know i love God but would never thrust that view down your throat.

If people accepted God and tried to live in harmony the world would be a better place.

Nothing wrong in being gay. Nothing wrong in loving someone of the same sex. That is fine. But, marriage is sacred and should be reserved for a man and a woman. Ok, i failed at marriage big time. No need to say, i know, Thank God we are back on track, but, it is sacred to a man and a woman.

Gays can have a civil ceremony. But marriage is a special, sacred sacrament reserved for a man and a woman. Marriage has always been about a man and a woman. Marriage and kids. The fulfilment of life, human life!

Marriage is not a Christian idea. It's not even a religious idea.

You say you wouldn't thrust your religious views on other people or even preach, but you say that everyone should be forced to conform to them.

A religious blessing of a marriage may well be a sacred sacrament (a tautology, surely?) to followers of that religion. But it isn't the marriage and it isn't a "sacred sacrament" to anyone else. A marriage is a civil ceremony. More accurately, it's a legal agreement. A ceremony of any kind is an optional extra.

My preferred solution would remove the whole issue at a stroke by removing the single word that all of this dumb argument is about. It's a clumsy word awkwardly covering completely different things and ripe for fighting over. Time to bin it and label the different things accurately as different things.

 

[Frightful Boar]

Half the hatred comes from people like you who hate others for being themselves! People who take their religions way too seriously. Jesus ****ing Christ.

You do understand that people who believe in God believe that he must be obeyed right? People are going to take that more seriously than anything.

Here is the crux of it.

We are all equal, race, gender, colour of your skin, bucked teeth, tall, short, ginger with freckles included. That includes sexuality preference or what one would like for breakfast.

Believing that is fact is probably the crux of it. Not everyone agrees. I certainly don't.

 

[macca672]

God is perfect.

 

[Tefal]

You do understand that people who believe in God believe that he must be obeyed right? People are going to take that more seriously than anything.

and he was all about not judging people wasn't he? seem to remember him telling a tale about a Samaritan and knocking about with a hooker.

she should have been killed if you followed Leviticus.


Whats interesting is if koolpc had is "moral" world wed have all thrown heavy things at him till he was dead for his sin, yet instead he's been allowed to completely violate the sanctity of marriage and carry one without issue.

yet him who violated it in its most fundamental way is now banging on about how letting people who love each other marry is sacrilege.


Pretty sure that Jesus fellow had something to say on this matter to, he who is without sin cast the first stone?

yet here we have a sinner against the sanctity marriage leading the charge.

 

[Tefal]

Remember, God gave us free will. We can choose what we do with our lives. He didn't make Gay people.

So when did you choose to stop wanting to sleep with men?

God is perfect.

So why did he **** up and have to send his son to help make the corrected part 2 of the bible?

 

[estebanrey]

So why did he **** up and have to send his son to help make the corrected part 2 of the bible?

That was to atone for his first two most mistakes of making the tree of knowledge that he knew if his humans ate from would lead to disaster and a talking snake who gives out shady advice.

Noah's flood was another one of God's attempt to cover up his mistakes too.

 

[koolpc]

This forum is just full of atheists! So many of you that have a deep hatred for anything or anyone religious. Very sad indeed.

 

[spudbynight]

This forum is just full of atheists! So many of you that have a deep hatred for anything or anyone religious. Very sad indeed.

Very true

So why did he **** up and have to send his son to help make the corrected part 2 of the bible?

Free will.

We have it.

Here is the crux of it.

We are all equal, race, gender, colour of your skin, bucked teeth, tall, short, ginger with freckles included. That includes sexuality preference or what one would like for breakfast.

That may not be true in all corners of society but we are getting there slowly and the sooner we get there, the more peaceful the world would be. This law takes us one step closer and we should be all the more grateful for it.

Yes, we are all equal, however marriage isn't about equality.

People who define themselves as homosexual are able to enter in marriage and always have been, they simply choose to enter into a different type of relationship.

The whole "gay marriage" debate has nothing to do with equality and it never has done.

Should a couple of spinster sisters who love each other and have a couple of cats be able to marry each other? The logical answer to that is of course not. They may love each other very much and want to take care of each other. They relationship is not a marriage though. They are not discriminated against because their relationship is a different type of relationship.

 

[RDM]

Yes, we are all equal, however marriage isn't about equality.

People who define themselves as homosexual are able to enter in marriage and always have been, they simply choose to enter into a different type of relationship.

Turn the situation around for a second. If the ONLY legal marriage was between homosexual couples would you feel that you had exactly the same rights as them? I know I wouldn't as I have no desire to marry a man.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Turn the situation around for a second. If the ONLY legal marriage was between homosexual couples would you feel that you had exactly the same rights as them? I know I wouldn't as I have no desire to marry a man.

If we lived in a world where homosexual marriage was the norm, then yes I would feel I had the same rights. I'd also recognise my perversion for marrying women was not the norm and I had no right to afflict to the whole of society for my ego.

I am usually not allowed to use the ladies bathroom in any given establishment, but its not a problem because men have their own separate room for their business.

 

[RDM]

If we lived in a world where homosexual marriage was the norm, then yes I would feel I had the same rights. I'd also recognise my perversion for marrying women was not the norm and I had no right to afflict to the whole of society for my ego.

Exactly how is gay marriage afflicting society? I don't suddenly love my wife less because gay people can also get married.

 

[Hitman_Leon]

If you're asking why I object to people saying this is an issue of equality, I object because it is not an issue of equality. The 'progressives' frame it as such because the notion of equality is so deeply ingrained in Western culture. Even if there was a rational argument against an issue of equality, you'd be hard pressed to get that past peoples emotional response of 'EQUALITY!!!11'.

I rather imagine that we'll see the same 'equality' argument used to push through legislation legalising other dubious relationships.

Since being gay is not dubious in the least the question of equality between heterosexuals and people who are gay in regard to how they celebrate and cement their relationships had to be addressed. Allowing gay marriage addressed the issue of inequality between gay and heterosexual couples.

Do you deny the existence of lobbyists and pressure groups?

If you are referring to groups such as PIE-(dissolved in 1984) groups such as that collection of sick and twisted individuals or others like them cannot push for equality. Since equality is awarding rights and concessions already held by others to those without them, without impeding the rights of others and creating more inequality.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Jesus spent his time wandering around with a bunch of guys instead of settling down like a good Jewish boy.

Jesus started his Ministry when he was around 30 so he probably did live a normal Jewish boy life up until then.
Just because that side of his story is missing from the Bible it doesn't mean that he wasn't married with kids.
Even the Catholic Church has now back tracked on Mary Magdelene but they obviously won't come out and say they think they were married.
Mary was allowed to anoint Jesus's feet which was a job reserved for a wife (apparently).