Garden Ponds

Managed get down today and take some snaps.

It's a concrete pond which has been bichmen lined. It's around 6ft deep in the middle and is shaped like a deep bowl.

I'm thinking around 10-15,000L?

As you can see it needs some Tlc.

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1:

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2.

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3.

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4.

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5.

Same as 4 but just water.

6.

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7.

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8.

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Grr just lost all my post by accidentally sweeping back.

Ok that's a decent sized koi pond. I have a feeling that you're closer to 20K..

They are using CH circulating pumps in 1 and by the looks of it the system has an inbuilt reversal system. Each of the pumps have a sluice gate valve, the one open and the pump at the moment is normal operation. That pumps out through the UV.
If I'm right the tubes in 8 are designed to output into the drain on the reverse but also act as an overflow protection - so if it rains a lot you don't have to manually take water out of the pond.

Oddly I replaced my CH pump recently.. so I have some experience. The number selector sets the pump rate - yours is set at 1, or according to the label 2400l/min. As the pump is well within it's normal pump head height (no centre base drain in the pond I take it) that figure of 2400l/min is about right. So if that's correct you're running at 144,400 l/hour max or say 80-100K to take in any form of head or flowrate blocks (i.e. filter). This is why I think your pond is probably bigger than you think possibly 20K as you want to filter all water at least once an hour (goldfish are happy with once every 2-3 hours). A heavily stocked pond needs more filtration (more blocking load).
Btw - the CH pump ISN'T water tight on the electrics, so be careful (at least the Grundfos pump I fitted wasn't when you connect up the electrics). There's an arrow on the back of the pipe housing - i.e. the bit where the pipes connect in showing the flow directions, you can't use the orientation of the main housing as an indication of flow direction because you can unscrew & rotate to fit depending on the CH installation).

To clean the normal pump is switched off, the valve closed and the INPUT valve is closed too (there should be something near the input - an I assume there's a pump there too?), the other pump (pumping backwards) is connected - possibly with a removable flexible hose into the pond (or even a pond vacuum), and the valve opened. Pumping backwards agitate the filters and the now very dirty crappy water then overspills down the drain in 8.
The reason I suggest vacuum is that without a bottom drain (3 is an overflow skimmer that takes water but don't really clean the crap out the bottom of the pond), you'll need to get the poo from the 6ft depths in the centre. It maybe there is a centre drain that connects to the 6 cyclone but is blocked some how. Either way part of the normal maintenance without something to suck the pop from the bottom would need to be a vacuum of some description.

If I'm right then 6 is a cyclone bin used to remove the big waste like a dyson vac. The way it cleans is that the reverse water (and a bit of poking) over flows the wall and into 7 or 8. Unless there's a valve system on this too to switch dirty flow.

You can check if 6 is a cyclone by looking to see if there's a slit where a pump would push water from 3 around into a cyclone. Easy to spot - just run a cane around the inside and see if there's a slit. It should be about 1/3-1/4 of the way down. Cyclones need a pump to drive the vertex (unless it's sealed - which this isn't). The pump would normally pull the real heavy waste from the centre of the depth, though a CH pump then through the slit.. this causes the vertex, the solid settles out, and the water then exits the top (a waste vent at the bottom would be closed with a valve) the top cleaner water then moves through into the next stage of the filtration system - i.e. the first bin.

Are you sure that the sump pump is not the input pump into 6 that's disconnected? If not it could be a design like this: http://www.thepondforum.com/showthread.php/72-DIY-55-Gallon-Barrel-Pond-Filter

UV - you'll need to replace this bulb every 6-12 months, clean the quartz tube - be VERY careful of UV and ensure that the thing is off before you open it.

Seems that's a very advanced filter setup, but needs lots of work to get it back running - but the heavy work is already done.. a 10Kl/h ezpod is about £500-600.. so you'll probably be looking at 1500-2000 if you chose to rip it out and start again (including air pump).

The estate agent has an air pump sat on the wall.. that's something you'll want for koi - or at least a load of white water to maximise O2/CO2.

Evaporation is probably quite high on that surface area too.. so check if they don't have a large rainwater butt around. If the skimmer (3) is the only input into filtering, if the water level drops too much dir to evaporation then the filtering gets shut off..

As the previous owner if there's a base drain in the centre of the pond connected to 6.. it could save you a shed load of time in maintenance..
 
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I've had another look around today to see what's what. I covered the skimmer for a short period of time and the flow at the back of the pond didn't change, so I assume there is another pump somewhere? I'll know more once we empty in a few weeks time.

The tubes in 8 can be pulled out and dirty smelly water comes out the hole into sump which then pumps out into the drains.

If you need any more photos let me know, I'll grab what I can.

I think it definitely needs empting and rewiring as the current wiring is a mess. Were also going rig up a nice working cover/walkway over the filter bays to access the Uv as the deck boards have seen better days.

Thinking metal frame and joined deckboards on hinges so they open at 4 different points.


Edit:

Looking at the wiring, It may be that it is the only pump for the pond. The other one looks old and redundant, or it no longer works so they never used it.

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Some of the old wiring, need to bring my meter back from work and test around.

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Wiring does look like a mess! Would remake connections at the least. You know theres not loads of Rats around tho or they would have munched thru that flex by now.
 
Ok, so it's looking more like a mavity fed system - you need less pumping... the vortex will be bottom-side fed rather than the mechanism I pointed out. The output will be close to the top and a waste gate at the bottom.

It's likely to have a centre drain attached to the vortex, and a skimmer - all basically use a controlled overflow to drive them. They need to be at the same level as the pond, then the single pump then evacuates the filter back into the main pond - causing the controlled overflow. The problem is that the filter only has the force of the overflowing water to push it through, hence you need the cleaning system as you'll be cleaning it every week or 1/2 week. If it blocks then it over flows somewhere..

if you can check the CH pumps - on the back of the housing (i.e. if the label you've shown is the front then look on the metal on the other side of the pipes - it will be embossed in the metal itself). That will show the direction - the one in operation now should show the arrow pointing up towards the UV system and the pond. The non-connected pump is very likely to be pointing the other way.. that's the reverse cleaning pump.

The electrics have three switches which probably control the two pumps originally - but it looks hot wired into the single remaining CH pump. It looks like there was a section of armoured cable cut and left on the ground. Those grey boxes should be above the height of the pond water level and the enclosure should have drain to allow moisture to exit. They are designed as splash/rain safe IP55? but certainly not submersion safe. To put it mildly - the electrics are unsafe.
 
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At the moment the electrics are all plug fed from 2 x IP66 sockets (mounted outside the pond) which take a feed from a SWA cable from a spur in the garage. The wiring in the picture is old stuff In the hope of shedding more light on the pond.

Looks like I've got a lot to learn about this pond, any recommendations forum wise?
 
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I Think I'm getting my head around it now. The picture is wrong, the tubes 8 are at the end between 6/7.

So, I'm going to have a drain in the center of the pond which will drain up to 6 which is the vortex, this will then filter into 5, which will then filter into 4 which is then pumped out and through the UV filter which is 1 and out into the pond at 2.

That would be the basics anyways. I've then got the added complications of 8 the tubes, which must take the crap from the bottom of the filters and chuck it out the pond system into the sump/bund for removal and ease of maintenance.

3 must link into the connection of the center drain and the vortex which then pulls all the old food, leaves ect into the filter system.

Like this:

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Obviously, there is other parts to my pond, but I think maybe that's the basics. I have more tubes than 3 and the other pump too which we think should be in reverse.



Images over 1,280 pixels wide should be placed in spoiler tags as I've done for you again!

Cheers

Surveyor


Sorry Surveyor, They always look small on my screen! I'll keep my eye open for it!
 
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You may want to keep the reverse agitation - it will make the self clean more effective. Another way is to add a big air pump output at the base of the filter bays - all the air causes things to stay in suspension.. then flush..

Made myself a small DIY Thien separator out of two plastic tubs to test an idea.. the idea is that the input sits at the base of the pond, the pump is moved to suck water from that separator and then force it through the pressurised Bioforce (inc UV) before it's output goes through the veggie filter, over the waterfall and back into the pond.

Thien separators are normally used in woodworking as dust extractors where they rival vortices. If the mass of water doesn't cause a problem, then it should separate the majority of matter before the normal filter. The beauty about it is that when it fills it doesn't cause a drop in flow rate, the less matter getting to the main filter then the more flow rate for longer.
 
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Something bugged me about the CH pump flow rate - it seemed excessively large, I couldn't read the unit and assumed litres - looking at the manual: http://www.dabpumps.com/dep/TS_VA-VB-VD_ENG.pdf

I did a search for DAB 55/130 and the value is 2400 n/min or RPM. One of the pages in that manual gives you the flow rates - depending on the setting it looks like they will do 50-60 l/min (bottom of graph). 50*60 = 3000 l/hour. If your pond is 10,000 l that will take 3 hours to run through.. a little slow for Koi.
 
Would that also depend on the filter size, and stocking levels of the fish. I was having a flick through the net last night and they seemed to suggest around 1-3 hours. The time would depend on size of filters and getting the right levels in the pond.



So if I keep my stock level low in comparison to the size of the pond I should be good?

A good testing kit for the pond?

How and where to add oxygen?

Which forums should I be browsing for the best information?
 
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Not an expert in any fashion - not on the forums either :) I joined extremekoi as they're UK based.. but like most thing you'll gravitate as you start searching. I'm assuming the others here will chime in with suggestions :)

I have a Blagden kit that has pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. How accurate - well as long as it's working.. it seems I'm doing ok.

Oxygen is something you can get as long as you have lots of surface area that's moving. Adding plants is another way but koi snack on plants. You can add the oxygen in the bond or as part of the filter - not really an expert here.. I've used a simple hozlock 320l/h pump for our pond but I think after 6 months, the internals need replacing as the output has dropped considerably recently. I know it's maximum pump depth is 1.2m, but the output that failed first was the shallower one!

In the days when I've had an aquarium I've had to replace the flappers and diaphragms every so often- this is no different. You'll need something that can output enough air with pressure at your chosen depth.
 
Finally came across my fish pictures - This is result of lack of oxygen in water - pump packed up then we had a thunderstorm.

Lost two this size.

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Dave
 
Well, an update :)

This year has seen a success - it appears that the water cress in the veggie filter and the lilies (flowering) and everything else is flourishing. Statistics are good too.

The water is now crystal clear and the fish are starting to get a little less spooked. There's less blanket weed than there was, and the UV light is keeping the green water at bay but I think the plants are really pulling the crap out of the water (the watercress is now very well established - although it will die out over winter).

The downside is that I'm having to clean out the pressure filter twice a week because the fish are massive poop machines.

We also had a large number of dragon flies, some water boatmen and others around too. The main issue at the moment is next door has a wasps nest in their detached garage at the back.. but the most readily available water source is .. our pond.
 
I'm still working on the house so still have not managed to get around to sorting the pond out yet. That and the previous owners still have not collected the fish.

Water is a lot clearer but can only see down to about 3', then it gets a bit murky.

I have noticed some water boatmen in one of the filter bays though. A good sign?
 
Don't be obsessed with clear water, koi love it green their skin and colour is much better and also health, mine is like pea soup at the minute but should get better when my new uv bulb comes this week.
 
Don't be obsessed with clear water, koi love it green their skin and colour is much better and also health, mine is like pea soup at the minute but should get better when my new uv bulb comes this week.

Hehe - yeah, our fish seemed to be happier running around where nobody could see them.

The lilies and oxygenating weed, old flower (big) pots, and even a weighted hessian mat etc are helping but they seem to wait till darker times to appear looking for food.

Green water helps block the light for blanketweed too but .. I think green water probably takes some oxygen out too.
 
Get yourself a chagoi koi Nick it will help teach your other fish be friendly as they are greedy things and will be first up to feed, the others soon follow :)
 
Well the pond nutrient levels have increased, with the sun there's a growing amount of algae. Previously I removed all the veggie filter water cress (a few seedlings in there exist) which looking at it was probably the wrong thing todo - probably keeping a 3"x3" chunk of the original plants would probably helped keep a check on the nutrient levels.

In goes the straw bales, staw extract (to boost whilst the straw bales start to work), some green away and some cloverleaf algae treatment (£22/tub! better be good).

Seems hard core but fingers crossed this will help stop the situation quickly before the temps rise again. What I don't want to be doing is continuously adding copper based treatments into the pond (green away).

I'll also replace the UV bulb at some point too.
 
Well.. to feedback the Blanket Answer algae treatment absolutely killed the blanketweed in the pond. Well worth the £23..

Possibly a little too much put in but the algae has dissolved from the sides and from all the plants. There's a little new growth in the veggie filter but nothing to worry about. The watercress is starting to grow in the veggie filter along with the two water iris.

I've replaced the UV bulb today and bought some summer fish food including some freeze dried foods.. I'm going to try to make the koi a little more sociable.
 
The bioforce 4500 integrated 9W UV ballast bit the dust in spring.. so today rather than fork out more for chemicals again.. I bit the bullet and put a 15W external unit on the output of the bioforce canister but before the veggie filter so dead algae end up sitting in the veggie filter and becoming plant food.

That means that even if the bulb degrades over the months, it's likely to be better than the existing system was - the unit is larger and has a longer bulb length.

Should see the current minor pea green disappear over the next week..
 
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