The labour Leader thread...

Since it's not been implemented, it's very difficult to be specific on the details. However, what's been mooted is the "new" money would be issued against 25-30 bonds which would be continually refinanced. In effect it's a pledge from the BoE to re-lend money indefinitely each time the bond matures. And in an arrangement so incestuous it would put Josef Fritzl to shame, interest payments would be paid to the BoE, which is owned buy the treasury, so it would be paying the interest to itself. So called "circular".

So far, so QE.

However, the net effect of printing money is beyond question. It will cause inflation and/or interest rates to be higher in the medium term than they would otherwise have been.

Given that inflation is at 0% and interest rates are at 0.5% why should we be remotely scared about an increase in either? Also, given that £375bn of QE hasn't made a dent in these figures why should would believe that a £50bn PQE would suddenly have a drastic effect?

The key difference between QE and People QE, is when inflation becomes an issue again, QE can be undone buy selling off the bonds that were purchased during the easing. The money can then be destroyed just as it was created.

You can't do that with "People QE", as the bonds held by the BoE are worthless, and the borrower is incapable of paying the money back as it's been spent.

Wrong. The "borrower" in the British government and it has every ability to pay back the bonds.

But, come on, QE is never going to be unravelled. It's never going to happen. These bonds will be rolled on until the end of time.

The burden of inflation will therefor fall on the rest of the economy, and that will include higher interest payments for business, individuals, the government and institutions who borrow via the usual means. It will also damage exports.

Inflation has many beneficial effects as well as negative ones and, as to damaging exports, I'm not sure what your argument there is, usually a weaker currency helps rather than hinders exports. The question of inflation should be about balancing those factors to best benefit not merely trying to fix inflation to an arbitrary target (2%) or eliminate it altogether. Right now, our economy is heavily indebted and we should be targeting a noticeable increase in inflation - preferably wage led - to help reduce the burden in a managed fashion.

This will quickly offset any benefit of printing the money in the first place, and some.

The economic returns of money invested means that everything spent should be returned many times over.
 
So far, so QE.



Given that inflation is at 0% and interest rates are at 0.5% why should we be remotely scared about an increase in either? Also, given that £375bn of QE hasn't made a dent in these figures why should would believe that a £50bn PQE would suddenly have a drastic effect?

The QE money had little impact on inflation, because circumstances dictated only a limited amount made its way into the real economy. It too was only originally intended to be £50bn, but it quickly becomes addictive.

Like I said in my previous post, the aim of QE wasn't to flood the economy with cash. It was to reduce the burden of government debt, to stop the financial system seizing up, and help control base rates..

It's not a magic wand, to ply everyone with cash. It was a solution which bought the economy time to recover, and limited damage. Much of the pain is still ahead.

Since the QE program was started, commodity prices have remained relatively depressed, the world has remained a fearful place due to the crash, and there has been austerity in the UK and much of the western world. This also helped keep inflation low.

The money still has the potential to cause serious problems though. If a £375bn QE program had been implemented in 2007, there would have been meltdown. As the economic mindset shifts slowly back to the pre-crash "norm", QE will need to be carefully managed. The point is, it is [hopefully] manageable. The BoE can regulate it in the normal way, and can recover the money when it needs.

You should also consider than there has been significant inflation in parts of the economy which are not included in the headline figures. The stock market, housing, antiques, wine, art, classic cars. Some of this has been fuelled by QE cash, particularly the stock market and housing, which could be the basis for the next crash.

QE has and will cause inflation. It's not yet clear how much, and the impact will depend on how the program is rolled back.

Wrong. The "borrower" in the British government and it has every ability to pay back the bonds.

If a JC led Labour government intended to pay the money back, why not just borrow the money in the usual way?

What he seems to be asking for is a free loan. Because "the banks have had one", which is a lie.

But, come on, QE is never going to be unravelled. It's never going to happen. These bonds will be rolled on until the end of time.

Holding the bonds is of no direct benefit to the BoE, and they own them and are responsible for monetary policy.

Offloading that quantity of bonds is going to take time, it will probably take longer to sell them off than it took to buy, which was 6 years. But they will do it. As above.

Inflation has many beneficial effects as well as negative ones and, as to damaging exports, I'm not sure what your argument there is, usually a weaker currency helps rather than hinders exports. The question of inflation should be about balancing those factors to best benefit not merely trying to fix inflation to an arbitrary target (2%) or eliminate it altogether. Right now, our economy is heavily indebted and we should be targeting a noticeable increase in inflation - preferably wage led - to help reduce the burden in a managed fashion.

I agree there is no "correct" level of inflation, but 2% is considered the goldielocks spot. High relative inflation makes a country uncompetitive, unstable and less investable. The price of goods don't only go up at home, they go up abroad too. It also erodes purchasing power parity. Higher rates invariably spiral, and the inevitable clampdown results in far higher interest rates than would have been required if inflation had been kept at sensible levels. This hurts everyone, including the government and government investment.

There is a reason day-to-day monetary policy was taken out of government hands. They alway found a excuse to rig it for short term gain. This only leads to more damaging action further down the tracks. Central bank independence is now the norm in developed economies, and 2% inflation is a typical target rate

The economic returns of money invested means that everything spent should be returned many times over.

I'm not against the government investing money. Some of the proposed investment sound interesting. If they believe they will benefit the country, they should find the conviction to get the money by honest means.
 
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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/corbyn-and-the-cringe-caucus/

A view from the Nobel prize-winning economist Paul Krugman, refreshing change from the propaganda driven drivel in UK mainstream media.
Well austerity has always been an ideological tool, it's never been supported by hard evidence.

Shrinking your economy by damaging both the spending power of the population & scaling back infastructure investment will only exasperate the issues we are facing. Ironically the Conservatives have overseen a huge mismanagement of the economy buy as the right wing press supports this ideology they are backing it.

It's just a shame the population is so easily duped into believing the cause of our woes was government spending (as opposed to lax financial regulation & the sub prime incident), people are just gullible & will buy whatever the papers tell them.
 
Yes the political ***aboutery will end, just as it has with the NHS.

For those that pay attention to the current electricity market, it is clear that we have the worst elements of the market and corporatism. Currently politicians craft policies that suit individual segments of the industry and then are surprised when it predictably skews the market. The disadvantaged segment then cries blue bloody murder and a new policy is enacted and so on ad infinitum.

They are able and encouraged to do this by the lobbying of individual companies, segments and special interest groups. In the last year £50m has been paid to 6 station to be available over the winter. The only reason these payments are required is because the politicians buggered up the market for them in the first place. Every CEO wants the ear of Ofgem and the Minister and to plead their special case. Examples are Tilbury and Eggborough being thrown under the bus whilst Drax is given the golden ticket for biomass burning. Peterhead getting £19m to be available for 6 months last winter in case the margins were tight. The ever moving grid balancing contracts that lift power stations out of the red into the black only to be moved again.

If we had a monopoly the politicians would have one CEO to negotiate with, they would set targets and the CEO would attempt to deliver them. We currently have dozens of CEO’s with competing needs and they are being played off against each other for no one benefit.

All of the benefits of privatisation were achieved by forming Powergen and National Power when they heavily demanned and streamlined their stock holdings. Every bit of slicing and dicing since then has had barely any effect on reducing prices, certainly not when compared to the huge additional costs politicians have hidden in our bills as opposed to our taxes.

So yeah I reckon one company would be less politically buggered around with than the current situation because I find it incredible it could be increased. If we had a monopoly you wouldn’t need a DECC you could roll it into a department for trade and industry., Hmm that has a ring to it.
 
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I would certainly reconsider voting for Labour again if Corbyn became the leader and I've not done that since 1997

Me too, although I worry about some of his potential social policies - let all the immigrants in and give them lots of money and ignore the crimes they commit, give in to Islamic terrorists etc. At least there'll be one candidate with a correct economic policy though.
 
Me too, although I worry about some of his potential social policies - let all the immigrants in and give them lots of money and ignore the crimes they commit, give in to Islamic terrorists etc. At least there'll be one candidate with a correct economic policy though.

He wants to remove us from NATO as well LOL!
 
Me too, although I worry about some of his potential social policies - let all the immigrants in and give them lots of money and ignore the crimes they commit, give in to Islamic terrorists etc.

Where has he said all that?

Or has someone else said that about him and you believe it?
 
Having paid no attention to this whatsoever, I'm curious about something that i need explaining.....

Why are there so many potential leaders coming out against this corbyn fellow, including that plank blair, yet he's being called the frontrunner in the leadership race? Is it that there's a fear that he's going to actually achieve something or is he genuinely looking like a bad idea for the party? ELI5 please :p
 
Where has he said all that?

Or has someone else said that about him and you believe it?

I'm not aware what his thoughts/policies are regarding immigration and the war on terror - but the policies I suggested are usually what those dubbed "the hard left" support.
 
I will admit as a Conservative voter that it will be refreshing to British politics to have clear blue water between the two major parties.

Nothing has become more boring than to have two or three centrist parties offering more or less the same and a general stagnation of the political sphere.

Having conviction politicians from both wings arguing their case may awaken the electorate and increase participation in both camps.

Roll on Jeremy. :D
 
Having paid no attention to this whatsoever, I'm curious about something that i need explaining.....

Why are there so many potential leaders coming out against this corbyn fellow, including that plank blair, yet he's being called the frontrunner in the leadership race? Is it that there's a fear that he's going to actually achieve something or is he genuinely looking like a bad idea for the party? ELI5 please :p

Labour used to be more left wing than it is and hadn't been elected for several years. In 1997 Tony Blair popped up with 'New Labour' and got labour elected due to a mix of people being sick to death of the Tories and Blair moving Labour a lot more to the centre to appeal to people with middle class aspirations.

It worked as he managed to have Labour in power for 3 terms, but a lot of old school Labour supporters were never really happy abou the shift in policies that have seen modern Labour become basically a slightly less extreme version of the Tories. The other candidates are all from the Blair school of thinking and don't want to see the party return a bit more to it's roots as they don't think they have any chance of electoral success under Corbyn. This ignores 2 things. 1) That a tub of lard could probably have won the 1997 election against John Major and 2) Corbyn isn't actually as 'loony left' as the media likes to make out.

Also Blair is probably worried that Corbyn might actually get him on trial for war crimes, which would be amazing.
 
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/corbyn-and-the-cringe-caucus/

A view from the Nobel prize-winning economist Paul Krugman, refreshing change from the propaganda driven drivel in UK mainstream media.
Why does he talk about austerity in the second paragraph and say it is all so important as to if he is going to reference it later in his article, and then not mention it again? Its like he is pushing his own agenda that is completely nothing to do with the article. There is a tiny mention of the fact that JC doesn't believe in it where the other contenders do, and then leaves it at that.

Baffling?!
 
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Labour used to be more left wing than it is and hadn't been elected for several years. In 1997 Tony Blair popped up with 'New Labour' and got labour elected due to a mix of people being sick to death of the Tories and Blair moving Labour a lot more to the centre to appeal to people with middle class aspirations.

It worked as he managed to have Labour in power for 3 terms, but a lot of old school Labour supporters were never really happy abou the shift in policies that have seen modern Labour become basically a slightly less extreme version of the Tories. The other candidates are all from the Blair school of thinking and don't want to see the party return a bit more to it's roots as they don't think they have any chance of electoral success under Corbyn. This ignores 2 things. 1) That a tub of lard could probably have won the 1997 election against John Major and 2) Corbyn isn't actually as 'loony left' as the media likes to make out.

Also Blair is probably worried that Corbyn might actually get him on trial for war crimes, which would be amazing.

Fantastic, i've just had a look through the policies list on the bbc website, rock on jeremy!
 
Why is the latter a non-starter? You just don't renew the ToC contracts.

I really think the government missed a trick with East Coast. They should have left it as a publically owned private company and let it compete against the private companies for contracts. If public ownership is in fact better it would have collected most of the franchises. If not then the franchises would stay in private hands.

Obviously it would need proper a hands off from government which could have been rather difficult...

£100bn market capitilisation doesn't mean the owners/shareholders have to be compensated to the tune of £100bn - compensation requirements are set out in UN resolution 1803. Valuation can vary wildly (see Royal Mail as an example).

That would **** off a lot of people/organisations/pension funds! I'm sure there would be a significant hit in investment in British companies after this if they weren't paid the market rate for their investments.
 
Tony Blair has committed war crimes? what? wow got any evidence of this?

oh oh wait, you think because he took the country to war that makes him a war criminal, oh haha right good one :rolleyes:

Isn't that the point of a war crimes trial - to find out if someone has committed a war crime?
 
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