Seven dead after Hawker Hunter hits cars

Janesy B · 25 Aug 2015 at 20:50

TaKeN said:
Maybe people question the maintenance standards of privately owned Aircraft?

Pendant mode: isn't most aircraft privately owned?

opstrat · 25 Aug 2015 at 20:56

i assume you mean vintage aircraft?

balky12 · 25 Aug 2015 at 21:12

Blackjack Davy said:
Thats the "gladiator" argument, they used to say the same thing about Grand Prix races, the thrill of the risk of death was part of the sport, they said.

Things changed. Mainly from the drivers themselves who were sick and tired of seeing their friends and colleagues massacred on the racetrack. The authorities resisted but eventually the sport was cleaned up to one of the safest motor sports, events like Ayrton Senna's death are rare now.

Which is a good thing. However loads of people still watch motor sport for the chance of a big crash. Which are still frequent.

However survival rates crashing in a racing car are a lot better than plane crashes.

deusexlumina · 25 Aug 2015 at 22:00

Janesy B said:
Pendant mode: isn't most aircraft privately owned?

pedant-ception mode: aren't most aircraft privately owned?

DJMK4 · 25 Aug 2015 at 23:42

Blackjack Davy said:
Well now, looks like an outbreak of reasonableness here, didn't think I'd see that anytime soon on GD.

Looks like pilot error predictably, and was "showing off" at the time, he should have been at no lower than 500ft and not the 100ft he was at, and manouvere should have been within the bounds of the airstrip and not over the road:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shoreham-airshow-tragedy-former-raf-6314673

Thats the "gladiator" argument, they used to say the same thing about Grand Prix races, the thrill of the risk of death was part of the sport, they said.

Things changed. Mainly from the drivers themselves who were sick and tired of seeing their friends and colleagues massacred on the racetrack. The authorities resisted but eventually the sport was cleaned up to one of the safest motor sports, events like Ayrton Senna's death are rare now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VtQ9Uc062M
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14el38_grand-prix-the-killer-years-documentary_auto
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00z8v18

Yep. He was way too low to do that monuvour, and why over the airfield?!

Akagi · 26 Aug 2015 at 00:07

Like I said before, the pilot is a moron, and if he survives, he needs to go inside and be stripped of his titles and his licence.

Caged · 26 Aug 2015 at 00:11

I don't think an article of "should'ves" is helpful, especially as it seems to be based on a bloke watching the same videos everyone else can watch and passing comment. The investigation will show why he was so low.

koolpc · 26 Aug 2015 at 12:49

Acme said:
Like I said before, the pilot is a moron, and if he survives, he needs to go inside and be stripped of his titles and his licence.

That is such an absurd post. Nobody knows what happened. Nobody knows if he had an issue with the controls etc etc. Jumping is just very unfair at this juncture.

Greebo · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:09

koolpc said:
That is such an absurd post. Nobody knows what happened. Nobody knows if he had an issue with the controls etc etc. Jumping is just very unfair at this juncture.

True but the fact that it would appear that

1. this manoeuvre wasnt part of his program
2. Other display pilots have said they wouldnt try that stunt from that low altitude

makes any kind of mechanical fault during the stunt irrelevant.

Lets put it this way. If a guy on motorbike tried to jump between two roofs and failed and crash on the pedestrians below would it make any difference that it later transpired that he had an engine fault just as he was going up the ramp and he would have made the jump if he hadn't or would you still blame the driver for attempting it in the first place?

JBuk · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:13

Greebo said:
True but the fact that it would appear that

1. this manoeuvre wasnt part of his program
2. Other display pilots have said they wouldnt try that stunt from that low altitude

makes any kind of mechanical fault during the stunt irrelevant.

Lets put it this way. If a guy on motorbike tried to jump between two roofs and failed and crash on the pedestrians below would it make any difference that it later transpired that he had an engine fault just as he was going up the ramp and he would have made the jump if he hadn't or would you still blame the driver for attempting it in the first place?

And another display pilot seen nothing wrong with the manoeuvre

Don't know if the manoeuvre was part of the program, has it been officially stated that it wasn't?

In any case until the full facts are know then its far too early to start slating the pilot

balky12 · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:14

Greebo said:
Lets put it this way. If a guy on motorbike tried to jump between two roofs and failed and crash on the pedestrians below would it make any difference that it later transpired that he had an engine fault just as he was going up the ramp and he would have made the jump if he hadn't or would you still blame the driver for attempting it in the first place?

Well if you can categorically say that he only reason the crash happened was because of a mechanical fault then you would blame the mechanical fault.

No matter how dumb the stunt was. It was the mechanical fault that caused the accident.

Surely?

mushtafa · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:22

Might be a silly question, but can a pilot judge height from looking out the window? (I'm guessing they can). I only ask as perhaps the altitude indicator/gauge could have been faulty.

Dis86 · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:27

mushtafa said:
Might be a silly question, but can a pilot judge height from looking out the window? (I'm guessing they can). I only ask as perhaps the altitude indicator/gauge could have been faulty.

Yes. An experienced pilot can. Same way traffic police get to be very good at judging speed, builders good at judging lengths etc.

Plus when the trees fly past your window you know you're too low!

balky12 · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:28

mushtafa said:
Might be a silly question, but can a pilot judge height from looking out the window? (I'm guessing they can). I only ask as perhaps the altitude indicator/gauge could have been faulty.

I would imagine so. It's no different from looking out the window of a building. Alright you're moving a bit faster, and judging it to he nearest foot would be extremely difficult... but he was a man with 12,000 flying hours. So you would have thought he could work out if he had enough height to do the stunt...

Greebo · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:29

balky12 said:
Well if you can categorically say that he only reason the crash happened was because of a mechanical fault then you would blame the mechanical fault.

No matter how dumb the stunt was. It was the mechanical fault that caused the accident.

Surely?

im sure some of the blame would go to the fact something idiotic was tried in the first place though.

Surely?

Scougar · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:33

The guy had 12000 hours in cockpit, I am pretty damn sure he knew how to fly.

balky12 · 26 Aug 2015 at 13:36

Greebo said:
im sure some of the blame would go to the fact something idiotic was tried in the first place though.

Surely?

Depends what the investigation discovers. Doing a loop the loop at an air show isn't really an idiotic idea.

However if it transpires he attempted it too low, then yes, itt would shoulder some of the blame.

With regards to flying near a road / over housing. We don't know wha caused him to be that close (if anything) and planes have been doing stunts near roads / over housing for a while. I live 2 minutes from a small airfield that hosts regular shows, some of which involve stunts.

koolpc · 26 Aug 2015 at 14:11

I have seen stunts where the pilot comes across low and then goes fast and high into the sky for a loop and continues fine. For all we know it could have been mechanical, health issue or pilot error! I hate all this blaming when the poor guy is lying in hospital and not able to defend himself.

Third Opinion · 26 Aug 2015 at 14:31

I heard on the radio earlier air investigators are now studying video of the Hawker Hunter taking off in Essex before the crash.

Apparently some feel the aircraft used to far too much runway to take off possibly indicating it was down on power before the show.

Washout · 26 Aug 2015 at 14:32

Being the armchair expert that I am I would think that the height he started from would be fairly unimportant. More the apex of the loop. If it was mechanical then the plane was going down regardless of the height.

Just a terrible situation all round. Can't believe he survived that though!