Gender Pay Gap

[Tefal]

The figures I read indicated that when considering equal qualifications, positions and hours worked, women earned approximately 3% more than men on average.
There is no gender wage gap of note. Anyone who says there is is trying to push their own agenda for whatever reason.

Women earn less than men on average between 30 to 37? That's truly shocking... when you consider that that's when the majority of women decide to have a child.
I'm actually astonished that the gap at that age range isn't higher. But that doesn't mean it isn't fair. Why should women get paid the same quantity of money for less hours worked? They shouldn't, end-of.

In our dignity at work course the woman told us that offering a job as full time only was sexist because more women work part time....


Yup...

 

[Deleted member 66701]

In our dignity at work course the woman told us that offering a job as full time only was sexist because more women work part time....


Yup...

A role can be full time but filled by two people (i.e. job share).

We used to do that to great effect when I was with HP - I job shared for two years when I went part time (yup - to look after our kids - modern man me).

Saying a full time role can only be filled by a full time person is short sighted.

But yeah - I get the point you're making. Flexible working should be open to everyone, not just women (which it is if you check the legislation).

 

[Tefal]

A role can be full time but filled by two people (i.e. job share).

We used to do that to great effect when I was with HP - I job shared for two years when I went part time (yup - to look after our kids - modern man me).

Saying a full time role can only be filled by a full time person is short sighted.

But yeah - I get the point you're making. Flexible working should be open to everyone, not just women (which it is if you check the legislation).

It's shift work in a factory it's not really suited to flexible working due to jobs following on from each other.

 

[dowie]

It's shift work in a factory it's not really suited to flexible working due to jobs following on from each other.

surely it is inherently suitable - it is broken down into distinct shifts of presumably 8-10 hours

why couldn't someone say work 2 shifts a week instead of say the usual 5?

 

[Tefal]

surely it is inherently suitable - it is broken down into distinct shifts of presumably 8-10 hours

why couldn't someone say work 2 shifts a week instead of say the usual 5?

It would require you find someone to work the other 3?

 

[semi-pro waster]

It would require you find someone to work the other 3?

On the face of it that's not enough to make it unsuitable for part time working - it might be that you can't find someone to do the other shifts but it's perfectly possible that there would be two (or more) people willing to split up the number of shifts that would usually be given to one full time employee.

It sounds like a role that could be advertised as suitable for a job share arrangement but that would be provided other candidates came forward willing to split up the shifts, if there aren't enough suitable candidates who meet the criteria and want to work on a part time basis then the company would have a case for saying that they needed the full time worker and not selecting the part time worker (or workers).

 

[dowie]

It would require you find someone to work the other 3?

well yes... so what - presumably you have more than two people working there? If you're talking about a factory with say a hundred or so workers then flexible working ought to be fairly simple to impliment

what do you do if someone wants a holiday currently - can they only book whole weeks off at a time? what if someone phones in sick?

 

[Nix]

It would require you find someone to work the other 3?

People always want overtime?

 

[Rroff]

It would require you find someone to work the other 3?

I think companies are going to have to look at being more flexible in that regard - increasingly a good number of the working population can't easily work traditional shifts - for instance we've got a fair few both male and female who have their kids for like 3 days of the week and their ex has them for the other 4, etc.

 

[Nix]

I think companies are going to have to look at being more flexible in that regard - increasingly a good number of the working population can't easily work traditional shifts - for instance we've got a fair few both male and female who have their kids for like 3 days of the week and their ex has them for the other 4, etc.

So breaking up the family unit was part of the feminist agenda all along?!

 

[Tefal]

well yes... so what - presumably you have more than two people working there? If you're talking about a factory with say a hundred or so workers then flexible working ought to be fairly simple to impliment

what do you do if someone wants a holiday currently - can they only book whole weeks off at a time? what if someone phones in sick?

holidays booked in advance and not allowed if theres other people off that mean there would be a shortage for that job (not everyone can do every job).

sick = picked up by overtime on the weekend, long term sick can cause some serious issues though as they scrabble around to find someone available and familiar with the job to cover for the short term while they train someone new.

People always want overtime?

but companies don't want to be using overtime to cover basic production only to cover unexpected shortfalls.

 

[Janesy B]

There's a female in my team that gets the exact same wage a man would get, also new applicants have the same wage expectation as male candidates. I'd say in networking, no gap exists.

 

[dowie]

holidays booked in advance and not allowed if theres other people off that mean there would be a shortage for that job (not everyone can do every job).

the question was do you have to book whole weeks off? not 'do you get holiday?'


It seems that flexible working could work in the context of a factory where people work shifts

shouldn't matter if you've got a handful of part timers doing say 2-3 shifts a week in among full timers doing 5 shifts a week

 

[Deleted member 66701]

There's a female in my team that gets the exact same wage a man would get, also new applicants have the same wage expectation as male candidates. I'd say in networking, no gap exists.

I did a pay audit for 2500 staff at HP back in 2011 as part of a pay claim. I found minor equality issues but nothing to worry about (it certainly wasn't endemic or institutionalised), and the company addressed those issues immediately anyhow. For example I found one team where a manager had disproportionately awarded pay rises to male staff versus female staff and there was no reasonable explanation for it - the company addressed it immediately.

Looking at other companies pay data across the IT industry, I'd say IT doesn't have any equality issues of note. Any issues arising are best dealt with on an individual basis I find.

I can't comment on other industries.

 

[Diagro]

In schools I have found women support staff get paid more.

the admin staff who just push papers all day and call the it staff when their emails are slow all day get paid 10 to 20% more. And that's a bog standard admin woman vs a senior it tech too.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

And that's a bog standard admin woman vs a senior it tech too.

You can only compare pay between the same roles though.

Admins could be worth more than senior IT techs to the school (schools do seem to under value IT).

The correct comparison would be between a male admin and a female admin with the same resposnibility/role and seniority (assuming the school recognises pay scales).

 

[No1newts]

I'm still at University but have got a years experience in the field, Civil Engineering, and at uni there seems to be a lot going on encourage girls to become engineers even to the point where they get extra grants and such not available to me and other men JUST because they are female.

Whilst we need to make sure no one is discouraged to take a subject, I don't think the right move is to encourage them like my University does.

This statement highlights the highly ironic and amusing fallacy in the "equality" movement. The fact is the whole damn thing thinks it in some way acceptable to push an agenda of discrimination to bring about equality.

The fact that people can, with a straight face, continue to spout such despicable hypocrisy and laud it as in some way progressive is typically indicative of an self loathing and overly apologetic society that is constantly manipulated by persuasive minorities who use emotional blackmail to get their ends.

Lol society.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Surely

I can't help but feel

Now, I'm not saying that discrimination may not still exist in

Without looking closer, I'd assume causally speaking

I particularly dislike

Firstly, I dislike it as it's attempting to

Men for example -- stereotypically speaking -- tend to need to feel that they're useful or otherwise needed;

Furthermore, being underemployed can be really detrimental for a man's relationship chances. For women, it's less so.

It's nonsense.

Thoughts?

Hey Nix, hope you're well I edited out some of your words and left the ones that seemed to be your real point/feelings. There's a strong undertone of Mary Sue here and a couple of copy editor pieces which you should consider if you're going to post this on your blog (my first four edits above primarily).

 

[lafemmefatale]

 

[alx]

I always see these campaigns to get more women into engineering or computer programming, which is fair enough, but I never see any campaigns to get more men into HR. Just a thought anyway.

Probably because there isn't the demand (or as much demand) for HR people. The push towards STEM subjects is probably partly because they tend to be in demand.