The EU Migrant Crisis

[The Geezer]

The handshaking story is over 5 years old and he was only rewarded 6,000 euro's - this is how we and the media spread gossip and rumours

I remember growing up many moons ago (1970's) and there was a story floating about a black family who had no pets but a neighbour of theirs found cans of dog food in their bin, it was all about making them sub-human not members of the community.

 

[aardvark]

controlled immigration is fine (i am the son of a cypriot immigrant) - but these sorts of numbers can only end in serious problems. Check the history books - no large scale immigration that refuses to integrate has ever benefited the indigenous population long term (afaik).

 

[mid_gen]

Wouldn't institutionalised sexism and mistreatment of women be against the culture of a liberal state?

If you see evidence of this, be sure to report it to the authorities. Of course, if it only exists in your fevered imagination, best not to waste their time.

 

[Jono]

Why don't they stay west of the med and go to Iran, Jordan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan etc? Surely that's a better/happier (closer cultural match) place for them?
Heck, even go to Saudi Arabia/UAE

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Overrun...Really? Overrun. Wow. Last time I was in Germany, it didn't look overrun. Far from it actually....I guess my Daily Mail comment seems to have hit a nail on the head. You are even using their language. Well done.

Well the tense I used suggested it was an ongoing process. English, do you speak it?

Afghanistan from that specific list. And to a minor extend Syria (bombing / dropping weapons). That's 26.1% of refugees that came from those country in 2014. Haven't got 2015 statistics yet, should be a lot larger for this year.

Afghanistan was not an illegal war and Afghanistan was pretty much in chaos since the Russians invaded. Most people consider Afghanistan to have been a just and worthwhile war. Right now is actually the most stable its been in decades. So I fail to see how you can suggest we're responsible for the hordes of immigrants.

Our own involvement in Syria has been small, so how can you possibly suggest we're responsible for the entirety of the Syrian immigration?

Nice way to avoid Iraq I see, but I won't. Here is the story of Iraq.

Including Iraq that's 29.5% of all refugees that have come from these illegal wars and that's from last year when the number of refugees was fairly small compared to this year.

I refute the basis of your 26.1% as neither were the result of an illegal war, which was your original claim.

Yes I do realise that a large portions of the problem is economic immigrants. But these aren't the actual problem, because they will never receive an asylum to stay. 95% of economic migrants will be sent back in within a few years at the most.

And yet hundreds of thousands are not sent back, because they destroy their documents and then use various legal loop holes to avoid being sent back.

The problem is we are not accepting genuine war fleeing refuges. Christ even some Afghanistan translators are not being given asylum by this government and they were helped the British troops out when the war was going on..

They helped us to bring stability to their country. I fail to see why that should give them British citizenship? There is in fact a relatively stable government in Afghanistan now.

 

[McPhee]

It's the hypocrisy of the 'Liberal Left' that winds me up the most, especially the Guardianistas...

They're the ones advocating the 'open door' immigration policy, that we should let in everyone and anyone who wants to and give them a house and income support, yet on the other hand oppose any new housing being built, especially on precious 'Green Belt' and particularly in the vicinity of their village whose 'character' will be destroyed in the process.

Often they are also staunch environmentalists railing against the concreting-over of our countryside, yet their 'joined-up thinking' hasn't yet 'joined up' enough to wonder where the 250,000+ (source: The Guardian!) immigrants who arrived between mid-2013 and mid-2014 alone are going to live, let alone all those in shared houses and perma-renting whose hope of ever getting on the property ladder is ever diminishing.

What a load of ********.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions there. If that's winding you up, then you're evidently a bit dim. What you have described is a range of different viewpoints of various people on the left. I'm sure a minority believe in all of them, but then stupid people are everywhere.

I'm not quite sure why there's so much hostility on this forum toward liberals and lefties in immigration threads. There's very little hostility in the other direction. It's almost as though the anti-immigration crowd are (at least a little) ashamed of their point of view.

 

[Tunney]

Why don't they stay west of the med and go to Iran, Jordan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan etc? Surely that's a better/happier (closer cultural match) place for them?
Heck, even go to Saudi Arabia/UAE

Most of them do. The thousands making their way to the UK are dwarfed by the hundreds of thousands displaced by the conflict in Syria.

 

[Jono]

What a load of ********.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions there. If that's winding you up, then you're evidently a bit dim.

He does have a point, though... there are a lot of people who seem to think we can and must take in EVERYONE who wants to come here, provide them with a house to live in (not 26 to a room, but a house per couple/family), a job and all the extra amenities they'd need...


I agree we can take in some, but only genuine refugees and how do you weed those out if they've "lost" their papers and any record of who they are and where they've come from?

Those two poor people in Sicily that were murdered ... that's four too many people to have died at the hands of these migrants. Granted it was one individual, allegedly... but I don't want any more criminals in this country. I'd like to be able to deport the ones we've already got that shouldn't be here.

People breaking into Eurotunnel etc are coming here illegally, and in my mind they are criminals. They should come in legally, and we should be (somewhere) providing a means for them to attempt that. Fair enough if they are deemed to be allowed here officially... fine. So long as somewhere can accommodate them without displacing a UK citizen. And they should be kept track of, not given citizenship/indefinite leave to remain...

It's when that happens that I have an issue with uncontrolled (poorly controlled) immigration. No one even knows who's actually here.

 

[McPhee]

He does have a point, though... there are a lot of people who seem to think we can and must take in EVERYONE who wants to come here, provide them with a house to live in (not 26 to a room, but a house per couple/family), a job and all the extra amenities they'd need...


I agree we can take in some, but only genuine refugees and how do you weed those out if they've "lost" their papers and any record of who they are and where they've come from?

Those two poor people in Sicily that were murdered ... that's four too many people to have died at the hands of these migrants. Granted it was one individual, allegedly... but I don't want any more criminals in this country. I'd like to be able to deport the ones we've already got that shouldn't be here.

People breaking into Eurotunnel etc are coming here illegally, and in my mind they are criminals. They should come in legally, and we should be (somewhere) providing a means for them to attempt that. Fair enough if they are deemed to be allowed here officially... fine. So long as somewhere can accommodate them without displacing a UK citizen. And they should be kept track of, not given citizenship/indefinite leave to remain...

It's when that happens that I have an issue with uncontrolled (poorly controlled) immigration. No one even knows who's actually here.

Indeed, but trying to tie that to environmentalists campaigning against greenbelt development is silly. Anyone with half a brain cell knows you can't oppose all greenbelt development while being pro-immigration and in favour of mass housing development. The view points simply aren't compatible. Anyone who believes in all three things obviously hasn't thought it through - to suggest that everyone on the left, every Guardian reader, is that level of 's up I'd is just silly. There are idiots in every camp.

Personally I'm against open-doors immigration. I belive we should only have open-doors immigration with countries that are economically and culturally compatible. However, that isn't really relevant to this discussion. This is a refugee crisis, not an immigration one. The easternmost nations in the EU cannot cope with the current numbers of people pouring over their borders. They need help, and I do believe that it's in our interests to help them.

I favour the idea of allocating land in the larger EU countries for refugee camps. As none of those camps would be in the UK, it would seem fair that we pay a fairly large chunk of the cost of running them (same goes for any other small, wealthy nation in the EU) and provide further assistance as needed. If we leave Hungary, Greece etc. to deal with this alone, the problem will bubble over in to something a lot harder to deal with.

 

[ubersonic]

If you see evidence of this, be sure to report it to the authorities. Of course, if it only exists in your fevered imagination, best not to waste their time.

Riiiiiiiiight

Ever seen a Burka?

 

[dowie]

I drove back home from the Netherlands last night, via the Channel Tunnel. At Calais it was quite heart breaking driving past scores of migrants in search of a better life.

It got me thinking: in the event of a British civil war, if bombs were flying past daily and the risk of death is high then I'd take my loved ones out of this country in heart beat and I'd immigrate somewhere else. Wouldn't you?

But the migrants are out of sight, and out of mind right?

yeah I guess in the event of a civil war, after travelling through half a dozen safe countries and arriving in a safe, wealthy country where I could claim asylum I'd be absolutely desperate to break into another safe rich country with a very similar standard of living to the one I'd already reached... oh the plight of these poor people trying to escape France, tis definitely worth risking their lives to get to the UK - I mean what is the alternative - having to live among French people?

 

[scorza]

People visiting the UAE understand it is a conservative islamic state and local customs are expected to be adhered to.

People visiting the UK understand it is a liberal, secular state and people are free to practice more or less whatever religion or customs they choose to.

So when non-Muslims go to Muslim countries they are expected to behave according to Sharia law, but when Muslims come to a non-Muslim country they're free to do whatever they want. And you wonder why people don't want Muslim asylum seekers in their country.

Not if the person declining explains it is against their customs to do so.

Shouldn't have gone to Sweden then should he? Going back to my example, I expect if I explained to a French woman that it was against my culture to kiss strange women on the cheek multiple times and thusly I decline to do it, that explaination would not was and I would have offended her.

 

[do_ron_ron]

The answer is simple, stop going to overseas countries and bombing them and you will get far, far fewer refugees. This is a crisis of OUR making. Look at the nationalities of some of the refugees. Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Malians and others around Libya. All places where the UK Govt has been actively engaged in destroying or destabilising the country directly or in the case of Malians, for example, doing that to a neighbouring country resulting in overspill to their country. Stop meddling.

 

[Jono]

What about the rest of the "refugees" ?

 

[dowie]

The answer is simple, stop going to overseas countries and bombing them and you will get far, far fewer refugees. This is a crisis of OUR making. Look at the nationalities of some of the refugees. Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Malians and others around Libya. All places where the UK Govt has been actively engaged in destroying or destabilising the country directly or in the case of Malians, for example, doing that to a neighbouring country resulting in overspill to their country. Stop meddling.

not quite, Syria and Libya were uprisings - they weren't of our making, there was a crisis present in both those countries before we did anything

sure there is a link with ISIS and the fall of Saddam but tis not like that region didn't already have Islamists getting involved and forming groups anyway and the crisis started with the Syrian regime massacring its own civilians

Libya was facing possible genocide in their second largest city

you've got a very short sighted view if you think migrants are just down to UK/US foreign policy - both Libya and Syria would have still been issues without our involvement and our involvement in Syria has been very limited

This stuff will continue to occur and it isn't just down to western foreign policy, just look back at the Balkans for example - if anything a weak initial response from the West back then caused more deaths - tis a perfect example of where we needed greater Western intervention and more force used - Srebrenica for example - meddling was the right thing to do and we didn't do it enough nor back it up with sufficient force back then.

Ditto to Rwanda - we should have intervene then and we didn't.

Sierra Leone - we did intervene and we stopped a potential genocide in Freetown there.

 

[Tephnos]

The answer is simple, stop going to overseas countries and bombing them and you will get far, far fewer refugees. This is a crisis of OUR making. Look at the nationalities of some of the refugees. Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Malians and others around Libya. All places where the UK Govt has been actively engaged in destroying or destabilising the country directly or in the case of Malians, for example, doing that to a neighbouring country resulting in overspill to their country. Stop meddling.

Tell that to the US, who have conveniently been quiet.

 

[balky12]

The answer is simple, stop going to overseas countries and bombing them and you will get far, far fewer refugees. This is a crisis of OUR making. Look at the nationalities of some of the refugees. Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Malians and others around Libya. All places where the UK Govt has been actively engaged in destroying or destabilising the country directly or in the case of Malians, for example, doing that to a neighbouring country resulting in overspill to their country. Stop meddling.

It's not that simple clearly. These places were hell on earth before we intervened. They will continue to be hell on earth for the foreseeable future.

It has nothing to do with the West, we might not have helped in recent history, but to say this crisis is our making is a bit of a stretch.

The truth is these places are just not very nice places, mainly due to the fact the people who have power are not vey nice and are a few hundred years behind a civilised society.

 

[scorza]

The answer is simple, stop going to overseas countries and bombing them and you will get far, far fewer refugees. This is a crisis of OUR making. Look at the nationalities of some of the refugees. Afghanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Malians and others around Libya. All places where the UK Govt has been actively engaged in destroying or destabilising the country directly or in the case of Malians, for example, doing that to a neighbouring country resulting in overspill to their country. Stop meddling.

Another utterly embarrassing post from do_ron_ron that totally ignores the facts so he can maintain his warped world view. What about the Eritreans, Nigerians, Ivorians (no doubt there are others too)?

 

[robfosters]

Gux will be along in a minute to fight Ron's corner.

 

[Tosno]

Has OP answered yet how many migrants he is going to personally home yet, that his poor heart bleeds for? Or is it a troll post?

Libya was facing possible genocide in their second largest city

Genocide of babies good but possible genocide of islamic terrorists bad in the (once) richest country of Africa, gotcha.