The EU Migrant Crisis

[StriderX]

They can. And so can we. Easily.

What's lacking is the will, not the means.

You don't care about the inevitable low-class native dwellers who revel in the thought of violence?

Dissent only ever grows, it does not settle unless quashed, so don't purport the naivety that there wont be a clash eventually.

Er what, we can't afford 1 refugee, we're in debt.

Debt is oversensualised...

 

[Tunney]

Er what, we can't afford 1 refugee, we're in debt.

I'm in debt (mortgage) but I can still afford to give money to charity. If the debt is manageable, and it is, then we can take our share of the refugees in.

Part of the problem is that Greece is taking the brunt of this crisis. Greece can't afford to take all of these refugees in without our help.

 

[StriderX]

I'm in debt (mortgage) but I can still afford to give money to charity. If the debt is manageable, and it is, we can take refugees in.

Part of the problem is that Greece is taking the brunt of this crisis. Greece can't afford to take all of these refugees in without our help.

As soon as Shengen is abandoned, we will.

 

[JonnyT]

It's the hypocrisy of the 'Liberal Left' that winds me up the most, especially the Guardianistas...

They're the ones advocating the 'open door' immigration policy, that we should let in everyone and anyone who wants to and give them a house and income support, yet on the other hand oppose any new housing being built, especially on precious 'Green Belt' and particularly in the vicinity of their village whose 'character' will be destroyed in the process.

Often they are also staunch environmentalists railing against the concreting-over of our countryside, yet their 'joined-up thinking' hasn't yet 'joined up' enough to wonder where the 250,000+ (source: The Guardian!) immigrants who arrived between mid-2013 and mid-2014 alone are going to live, let alone all those in shared houses and perma-renting whose hope of ever getting on the property ladder is ever diminishing.

 

[Deadly Ferret]

a lot of these are people are honestly fleeing for their lives as refugees of war.

Why then did they not stay put in the first safe country in which they arrived?

Have you ever seen a world map? They'd have to pass through several peaceful countries to arrive here.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

It's the hypocrisy of the 'Liberal Left' that winds me up the most, especially the Guardianistas...

They're the ones advocating the 'open door' immigration policy, that we should let in everyone and anyone who wants to and give them a house and income support, yet on the other hand oppose any new housing being built, especially on precious 'Green Belt' and particularly in the vicinity of their village whose 'character' will be destroyed in the process.

Often they are also staunch environmentalists railing against the concreting-over of our countryside, yet their 'joined-up thinking' hasn't yet 'joined up' enough to wonder where the 250,000+ (source: The Guardian!) immigrants who arrived between mid-2013 and mid-2014 alone are going to live, let alone all those in shared houses and perma-renting whose hope of ever getting on the property ladder is ever diminishing.

That's not me.

We should be build a **** load of new houses all over the country and hand them to councils to be run as social housing, purchase houses from landlords (forced is necessary) where housing demand is very high (London etc) and hand the houses over to councils to run as social housing, invest in shale gas (and nuclear) and start a lot of "public works" that utilise the unemployed, like we did in the north when the mills closed. Renovate our parks, build cycle routes etc. Want £70 JSA? Give the equivalent hours in work at min wage (goes for asylum seekers to).

Why then did they not stay put in the first safe country in which they arrived?

Have you ever seen a world map? They'd have to pass through several peaceful countries to arrive here.

We're better than all the other countries and a lot of those countries are openly hostile to refugees (Italy, Greece) - just look at what's happening in Hungary for example - I wouldn't want to stay there.

 

[MacRS4]

Women, kids, families...drowning in the sea, people suffocating in lorries. The whole dam thing just makes me sad, it's like we've forgotten our humanity in order to protect...what, I don't know.

The number trying to get across from Calais are a tiny proportion of the overall displaced people. People don't risk their kids drowning on massively overloaded boats just for a bigger house or the potential to get some benefits, they risk it because that is a better option than the day they have right now. Think about that, it's horrific.

I'm hardly a lefty either, mostly historically a tory voter, but this whole situation is horrific. Horrific for what is happening to these people, and horrific for exposing people's lack of humanity.

I don't have any answers of how to fix it either, really just do not know.

 

[lsg1r]

How can I put this without sounding insensitive....

We simply can not sustain the current growth rate of population in this country both economically and in infrastructure.

In my view the simplest solution is to not allow 'migrant workers' to come to this country without a pre-arranged job (it works well in Australia) and ideally for them to have housing arranged by the employer or agency that does not take away from the limited supply of 'council houses', ie use private landlords (mind you this is another issue) where supply of housing is limited.
Stopping all handouts for at least 10 years would be a good thing too, especially if they've NEVER paid into the system.

As to the more 'deserving' migrants fleeing war etc, yes it's sad they're going through a war but there's only so many we can support, it's the same everywhere.

It's great saying lets help all we can but personally I'd rather see us helping 'homeless' people from the UK first, when we can say that EVERYONE can have a roof over their heads without needing to live in B&B's or hotels then we can look at housing people from other countries. Hell if I lost my roof over my head and had to rely on getting a council property I'd be screwed because I'm single, male and have no children, if I was female, single (or neglect to mention the boyfriend in a lot of cases near me) and have 1 or more children I would be homed as quick as possible, I'm no less needy but because of the 'rating system' I'm less important (yes equality at it's best)

 

[RaMDOM]

Women, kids, families...drowning in the sea, people suffocating in lorries. The whole dam thing just makes me sad, it's like we've forgotten our humanity in order to protect...what, I don't know.

The number trying to get across from Calais are a tiny proportion of the overall displaced people. People don't risk their kids drowning on massively overloaded boats just for a bigger house or the potential to get some benefits, they risk it because that is a better option than the day they have right now. Think about that, it's horrific.

I'm hardly a lefty either, mostly historically a tory voter, but this whole situation is horrific. Horrific for what is happening to these people, and horrific for exposing people's lack of humanity.

I don't have any answers of how to fix it either, really just do not know.

Quoted for truth. I think a lot if people feel this way. In don't think it can be fixed necessarily but I think that we can be doing more. I have a few ideas, which I think would have half a chance of working and would at least mean something is being done.

 

[Rroff]

Something that does strike me is that the vast majority of migrants you see on the news are young men.

The exact sort needed back in their home countries to fight and restore order.

It's a horrible situation but you can't let everyone in, it will only cause issues here.

Yeah one of my concerns is that the scale this is turning into is going to mean that not only are some countries going to be overwhelmed trying to deal with it but potentially end up inheriting some of the issues originating within the immigrant's home countries with potential for destabilising effects (obviously a bit of a longer term thing).

I'm not a fan of meddling with other countries (and that is a messy thing in its own rights) but IMO the scale of this is fast reaching the point where unless prompt and if necessarily hard line action isn't taken at an international scale to deal with the root causes things are going to get a lot more messy.

 

[Tephnos]

The reality that needs to be faced first and foremost:

- Europe is not the US. It doesn't have the sheer landspace, nor the money and resources, especially in these current times, to sustain these numbers of refugees.

- Countries like Sweden who accept refugees en masse and stated earlier this year that all Syrians get permanent stay is screwing them over. Estimates at 1% of the total population this year are immigrants. >100k this year. (Same with Germany, 1% of the population are migrants now). Collapse seems imminent to me. The populations are angry, the media and governments pretend the problems with housing, money, crime and rape don't exist. To speak out against any of it makes you a bigoted racist. The accusation is more powerful than the actual proof.

- The migrants trying to come into the UK through the tunnel are that - migrants. They gave up being refugees the minute they landed safely in Europe and discarded those countries for the UK, many of them claiming because the UK is the best and easiest - we don't, and should not, accept these scummy, low skilled people who don't want to contribute and simply want to profit off generosity.

- Our cultures are simply incompatible. Many of these people don't respect women and our laws and us telling them to do that won't change a damn thing. One example case in Sweden had an immigrant intern at a job refuse to shake his boss' hand because she was a woman, she told him he must respect traditional greeting in Sweden. He reported her and he was given 30k out of court to keep it hush hush. Is that what you want? That's what you're going to get. Yes, that's a single case, but nobody should deny even in the UK we have 'groups' of immigrants who clearly stick together because they refuse to integrate with our culture and make everyone around them feel unsafe and uneasy.

As for the UK? We're a tiny island with one of the densest populations in Europe, with social systems and welfare that are already at breaking point. We cannot handle taking in these migrants and to have a liberal ideal that we can somehow manage it is absolute folly. Get real.


For the record, I think all of this situation is terrible, but I'm going to be a realist and recognise we reached unsustainable numbers long ago and we're at breaking point, and governments are just plugging their ears. I fear for the future of Europe.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Things cannot stay as they are.

My solution would be to setup a camp in Calais with clean water, food and warmth using primarily Red Cross aid.

They should all be interviewed and thoroughly vetted, find out exactly where they are from. Find out their skills and what they can do and more importantly, what conflict they are apparently fleeing from.

The ones who can benefit our nation should be given passage IF it can be proven there will be a job to goto.

It should be known that anyone who tries to get down the tunnel without going through the process, will be shipped back to where they are from with military assistance.

Little public spend, but helping to provide comfort and maintain order until real arrangements are made. We cannot just stay as we are.

 

[bloodiedathame]

I think the country should do more, but we have a housing crisis and our infrastructure is struggling with the current population (school places, NHS waiting times, GP waiting times, congestion on roads/public transport etc).

 

[Tefal]

Things cannot stay as they are.

My solution would be to setup a camp in Calais with clean water, food and warmth using primarily Red Cross aid.

They should all be interviewed and thoroughly vetted, find out exactly where they are from. Find out their skills and what they can do and more importantly, what conflict they are apparently fleeing from.

about half way through your process you just accepted them as asylum seekers and now you cant send them back until their case fails.


hence why France are ignoring them because once you engage them officially thats it they're yours if you want them or not.

 

[explicit4u]

- Our cultures are simply incompatible. Many of these people don't respect women and our laws and us telling them to do that won't change a damn thing. One example case in Sweden had an immigrant intern at a job refuse to shake his boss' hand because she was a woman, she told him he must respect traditional greeting in Sweden. He reported her and he was given 30k out of court to keep it hush hush. Is that what you want? That's what you're going to get. Yes, that's a single case, but nobody should deny even in the UK we have 'groups' of immigrants who clearly stick together because they refuse to integrate with our culture and make everyone around them feel unsafe and uneasy.

Pretty sure members of the opposite sex in islam aren't supposed to shake hands unless married/related to one another, it has nothing to do with a lack of respect for women (what were you saying about being bigoted???). I imagine immigrant groups tend to stick together because of potential language barriers and probably a fear of the unknown. If you feel safe or uneasy around them that's your problem not there's.

 

[Tefal]

Pretty sure members of the opposite sex in islam aren't supposed to shake hands unless married/related to one another, it has nothing to do with a lack of respect for women (what were you saying about being bigoted???). .

shows a lack of respect for the person though in our culture doesn't it?


Refusing to shake a persons hand is an insult in the west.

 

[explicit4u]

shows a lack of respect for the person though in our culture doesn't it?


Refusing to shake a persons hand is an insult in the west.

It really doesn't, would you actually be insulted if someone didn't want to shake your hand for religious reasons?

 

[scorza]

Pretty sure members of the opposite sex in islam aren't supposed to shake hands unless married/related to one another, it has nothing to do with a lack of respect for women (what were you saying about being bigoted???). I imagine immigrant groups tend to stick together because of potential language barriers and probably a fear of the unknown. If you feel safe or uneasy around them that's your problem not there's.

If he wants to live in a country with Sharia law he can go and live in the Islamic State. If he wants to live in Sweden he should respect Swedish customs and traditions. As an Englishman I'm intensely uncomfortable kissing people on the cheek, but when I go to France I do it because that's the custom there.

 

[mid_gen]

If he wants to live in a country with Sharia law he can go and live in the Islamic State. If he wants to live in Sweden he should respect Swedish customs and traditions. As an Englishman I'm intensely uncomfortable kissing people on the cheek, but when I go to France I do it because that's the custom there.

Yes, they should set the example of all good British people who migrate to the middle east and don't drink alcohol.

 

[scorza]

Yes, they should set the example of all good British people who migrate to the middle east and don't drink alcohol.

Hold on - often the middle-eastern country in question has made specific laws that permit the consumption of alcohol, so what's the problem there? Those who go to dry countries and drink are a different matter - don't have much sympathy for them. As for general levels of respect for Islamic culture in places like Dubai, my experience is that you have no choice but to be very respectful as otherwise you won't be tolerated.