The EU Migrant Crisis

[Deleted member 66701]

You seem like a nice guy amigafan and you know, I'd love to live in a world where this would be a thing.

Well thanks I also respect the way you are conducting this debate - your arguments are making me evaluate and scrtinise my own opinions more closely - that can only be a good thing.

But reality comes in and slaps me. All I've been saying in this thread all along is inviting a bunch of people who can't even speak your language and also are hostile to a western way of life isn't smart.

I concur there will be challenges. I also agree, that just bringing refugees to this country and then doing nothing else would be a disaster - for the refugees and the "natives" - that's my fear. That's why I want to see a comprehensive plan about how to do it properly. I worry that the government will do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Long run this will blow up. And if it doesn't I'm happy to say I was totally wrong. But looking at the small number of migrants in Europe right now and the level of trouble they have caused I'm not hopeful for a long term positive outcome.

Again though, I see that as an issue with implementation, rather than anything inherently wrong with helping refugees. If you took people from a council estate and dropped them in a nice leafy suburb you'd have similar issues. Things need planning and implementing correctly - it's complicated - but I'd agrue that it's not an insurmountable problem.

I'm not one to run away from something because it's hard or complicated - quite the opposite actually.

 

[FoxEye]

That's how society betters itself - not by being inward looking and insular.

We're going to end up with two societies. One British and one just living in Britain. Places like Birmingham will be a model for the UK as a hole. Insular communities separated by language (because they don't speak English), religion, law, and practices.

A bit like how in many of these ME countries, different tribes share a country but are actively hostile to each other. And they are all supposed to be brothers in islam!

 

[Nitefly]

I think the question to ask is "how will assisting X thousand asylum seekers actually impact my life?".

Will they arrive on your doorstep and sleep in your garden? Will you likely ever see one? Will it cost you pennies? Possible over many years perhaps, say, £50 in tax?

I'd wager that the actual impact of asylum seekers on everyday life in the UK is extraordinarily small both financially and culturally. As such, I assume people must find the principle of it more offensive than the actual reality of it all. The worst most people are really seeing from asylum seekers is the arguable 'nuisance' of seeing it on the news or using the channel tunnel.

If there is a fair concern with any immigration to the UK, then it might be towards an influx of low skilled workers than ultimately depresses the wages pf low skilled jobs. I don't find such immigration objectionable in principle but I recognise, along with practically everyone in the universe, that there must be a balance. Then again, I must concede that, relatively speaking, I'm an extraordinarily privileged person and I'm practically immune from the most dramatic of foreseeable consequences (however remote). Of course, everyone must remember that low skilled migrants are a completely different matter from people claiming asylum from war torn countries, which is the actual issue at hand here, notwithstanding an inevitable overlap.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

We're going to end up with two societies. One British and one just living in Britain. Places like Birmingham will be a model for the UK as a hole. Insular communities separated by language (because they don't speak English), religion, law, and practices.

A bit like how in many of these ME countries, different tribes share a country but are actively hostile to each other. And they are all supposed to be brothers in islam!

So why not identify strategies to stop that happening then? I don't think "send them back" is a valid strategy gtw.

Saying that something bad will happen and shying away from the challenge of correcting it just smacks of defeatism imho.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

We're going to end up with two societies. One British and one just living in Britain. Places like Birmingham will be a model for the UK as a hole. Insular communities separated by language (because they don't speak English), religion, law, and practices.

A bit like how in many of these ME countries, different tribes share a country but are actively hostile to each other. And they are all supposed to be brothers in islam!

Something like Yugoslavia where everyone behaved themselves despite a thousand years of hatred because everyone was afraid of Tito's boys parking a T-72 on your family?

Look how well that turned out..

 

[FoxEye]

So why not identify strategies to stop that happening then? I don't think "send them back" is a valid strategy.

Saying that something bad will happen and shying away from the challenge of correcting it just smacks of defeatism imho.

They've been taught from infancy that islam will inherit the Earth, and we're all infidels.

Good luck with that.

Plus they've been fighting each other in the ME for decades.

 

[Maccapacca]

Some of you lot are raging loonies, do you really think every Muslim is 100% practising to the letter with an added Jihad rage chip on their shoulder?

 

[JohnnyG]

There seems to be a lot of families/people who are trying to leave here to go to Syria and lots who are trying to do the reverse.
We should just organise some sort of swap scheme where incomers can have the outgoers homes.
The nutters who feel the need to behead people who don't agree with them go away and we get the ones who just want a better life.
Win/win.

 

[shephga]

I still don't see how helping refugees will change that - quite the opposite in fact. I'd like to think my children when they are older will have the compassion to help others and put others before thier own selfish wants.

That's how society betters itself - not by being inward looking and insular.

Unfortunately some of the folk that come to enjoy the benefits of living in the UK don't want to integrate. They want the benefits and freedoms of living in the UK whilst trying to twist it back in to something that their parents/grandparents wanted to escape from.

 

[FoxEye]

Some of you lot are raging loonies, do you really think every Muslim is 100% practising to the letter with an added Jihad rage chip on their shoulder?

Remember the 'honour killings' that were in the news? Just think about that term.

These killings were typically because a daughter wanted a more western lifestyle. Either to mix with white boys, listen to their music, dress like them, eat their food.

To these people we are dishonourable.

Where did I say anything about Jihad? It doesn't have to be that extreme.

They segregate themselves because while they like to live here, they do not like our way of life. Their 'honour' depends on their adhering to the values of their home country.

They will not mix with us because /they don't like us/. They don't want their children to be like us. It is shameful for them!

What part of this makes me a raging loony?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Unfortunately some of the folk that come to enjoy the benefits of living in the UK don't want to integrate. They want the benefits and freedoms of living in the UK whilst trying to twist it back in to something that their parents/grandparents wanted to escape from.

Make them.

And if they don't then deport them. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think they deserve the chance first though.

 

[shephga]

I think the question to ask is "how will assisting X thousand asylum seekers actually impact my life?".

Will they arrive on your doorstep and sleep in your garden? Will you likely ever see one? Will it cost you pennies? Possible over many years perhaps, say, £50 in tax?

I'd wager that the actual impact of asylum seekers on everyday life in the UK is extraordinarily small both financially and culturally. As such, I assume people must find the principle of it more offensive than the actual reality of it all. The worst most people are really seeing from asylum seekers is the arguable 'nuisance' of seeing it on the news or using the channel tunnel.

If there is a fair concern with any immigration to the UK, then it might be towards an influx of low skilled workers than ultimately depresses the wages pf low skilled jobs. I don't find such immigration objectionable in principle but I recognise, along with practically everyone in the universe, that there must be a balance. Then again, I must concede that, relatively speaking, I'm an extraordinarily privileged person and I'm practically immune from the most dramatic of foreseeable consequences (however remote). Of course, everyone must remember that low skilled migrants are a completely different matter from people claiming asylum from war torn countries, which is the actual issue at hand here, notwithstanding an inevitable overlap.

Personally I've no problem with anyone genuine asylum seekers coming here. Just want them to integrate with society and not try and change the UK in to something they've escaped from.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

They've been taught from infancy that islam will inherit the Earth, and we're all infidels.

I was taught that the earth was created by a sky pixie in 6 days.

I don't belive that now though (I also figured out that sex before marriage was awesome as well!).

Plus they've been fighting each other in the ME for decades.

And we were fighting Germans 80 years ago - your point?

To these people we are dishonourable.

They segregate themselves because while they like to live here, they do not like our way of life. Their 'honour' depends on their adhering to the values of their home country.

They will not mix with us because /they don't like us/. They don't want their children to be like us. It is shameful for them!

What part of this makes me a raging loony?

The part where you use "they" to ascribe a bad trait to EVERYONE of that faith.

Does it not occur to you there are degrees of faith in Islam, just like there are degrees of faith in Christianity? I suppose you consider yourself a Christian? I presume that means you've not had sex before marriage, know the lords prayer by heart, confess your sins regulary, don't work on a Sunday and so forth?

Have you not considered that exposing refugess to our more progressive, secular society is actually a great way of combating extremism? How will they ever know there is a better way if they never see it? Wouldn't it be great that once Syria sorts itself out and Syrians start returning there, they go back enlightened and take our values with them?

I think the refugees have cause to worry more about us changing thier sociey than we do about them changing ours.

 

[shephga]

Make them.

And if they don't then deport them. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think they deserve the chance first though.

You can't force people to integrate and you can't deport them once they're here. We can't even deport hate preachers and terrorists without the European Human Rights court sticking their oar in.

Either they want to integrate or they don't, once in the UK, it's a UK problem.

 

[FoxEye]

Make them.

And if they don't then deport them. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think they deserve the chance first though.

LOL, amazing.

Who is going to make them? Why haven't they done this in Birmingham or London?

Why are the police afraid to go anywhere near them?

You think you can force someone to integrate? They'll soon have their lawyers out, demanding their human rights. We can't even force someone to take off their burhka in a court of law!

 

[Maccapacca]

What part of this makes me a raging loony?

The Daily Mail bit.

I've not met one of these nutters only read about them in the gutter press.

 

[FoxEye]

The Daily Mail bit.

I've not met one of these nutters only read about them in the gutter press.

Me neither. I have relatives in London who tell me all the gory details.

I have no reason to believe they are lying to me.

 

[shephga]

The Daily Mail bit.

I've not met one of these nutters only read about them in the gutter press.

BBC is gutter press too ?

 

[Maccapacca]

Me neither. I have relatives in London who tell me all the gory details.

I have no reason to believe they are lying to me.

I worked in London there's far more white trash there than anyone you're worried about.

BBC is gutter press too ?

I assume that's a rhetorical question

 

[Nitefly]

Widespread ghetto-isation, which is a word I just made up, or a surge in extremist views and activities isn't an inevitable consequence of assisting asylum seekers. Everyone will agree that we should dissuade / fight the former, but we really should be all in for the latter.

Fox-eye - you just went full on raging. The second limb becons!