Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

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Wasn't it john swinney who said that?

Indeed he did way back in 2001 but for proper context this is what he said:

Mr Swinney said Labour and the Tories believed that those living in Scotland were incapable of running their own country.

"They are terrified of the idea that the lives of millions of Scots would be improved if control of Scottish resources were in Scottish hands," he said.

"And that is why they will always run down the Scots - why they will always say we are too stupid and too poor to be trusted to run the affairs of our own country."

He was right 14 years ago and he is right today. The better together campaign basically consisted of 'you are too wee, too stupid and too poor' with a little sprinkling of bribes.
 
Read it and weep unionists!

Another glorious victory for the SNP:

Leith Walk by-election (10th September) :

SNP 36.2% (+7.7)
Labour 25.7% (-7.5)
Greens 21.8% (+1.5)
Conservatives 7.9% (-0.2)
Liberal Democrats 4.0% (-1.1)
UKIP 1.6% (n/a)
SSP 1.5% (n/a)
Left Unity 0.5% (n/a)
Independent 0.4% (n/a)
Libertarian 0.3% (n/a)
 
Congratulations.

That will be another snp mp sitting in Westminster having no effect whilst the conservatives keep their substantial majority ( unless stopping a bill on fox hunting counts for anything)

Enjoying this thread, those Nationalists certainly take this nonsense seriously don't they.

JB
 
Congratulations.

That will be another snp mp sitting in Westminster having no effect whilst the conservatives keep their substantial majority ( unless stopping a bill on fox hunting counts for anything)

Enjoying this thread, those Nationalists certainly take this nonsense seriously don't they.

JB

You are wrong on two counts. The first being that it wasn't a by election for Westminster. The second being your assertion that our 56 MP's are having no effect being at Westminster. They are having a huge effect perhaps not on policy but on public opinion. 56 SNP MP's out of a possible 59 and they have next to no power over policy at a UK level. The Scottish people see that and realize that we are not equal partners in this "union". In fact we are ruled by the English. What England want's England gets. Even with the SNP dominating the Scottish Westminster seats and with the best will in the world, thay are pretty much powerless to hold the unionists feet to the fire in order to get them to keep their word on their promises of more powers.

That is one of the many reason's support for Independence is now a majority opinion for people in Scotland. The people have seen that if you vote for a Unionist MP for Westminster they will just toe the line of whatever their English bosses want. If you vote for the SNP for Westminster, even if they win 100% of Scottish seats then they are still basically powerless against the combined forces of the unionists.

You call this "nonsense".

I call it being a colony. The curtain has been drawn back for the first time since the referendum last year and now the people of Scotland can see clearly the way in which they are being "governed". Some Scot's choose to continue being ignorant of this reality, luckily those tend to be the older generation so time is on our side.

This thread is like a promoting tool for Scottish nationalism. I can point people to it and show them what the rest of the UK thinks of the SNP and Scot's in general.
 
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Read it and weep unionists!

Another glorious victory for the SNP:

Leith Walk by-election (10th September) :

SNP 36.2% (+7.7)
Labour 25.7% (-7.5)
Greens 21.8% (+1.5)
Conservatives 7.9% (-0.2)
Liberal Democrats 4.0% (-1.1)
UKIP 1.6% (n/a)
SSP 1.5% (n/a)
Left Unity 0.5% (n/a)
Independent 0.4% (n/a)
Libertarian 0.3% (n/a)


Wrong indeed.

For a start, it's only a council by election, so is a completely local issue, and doesn't necessarily reflect nationwide opinion. The percentage stats are presumable based on the last council election in the area. So completely local.

Secondly, it's frankly laughable you are posting this result as some sort of SNP victory. The SNP candidate simply kept the SNP seat on the council after the previous SNP councillor stood down.

The real story here is the Labour candidate taking a seat from the Green councillor who also stood down. That would be unionist councillor taking a seat from a separatist councillor would it not?

Yes, read it and weep? I am more inclined to punch the air and tell you to "get it up ya!"...

That is surely a loss rather than a gain for you? Another of the "45" claiming a loss is in fact a victory. Good thing your lies are so laughable and particularly easy to read through.
 
Wrong indeed.

For a start, it's only a council by election, so is a completely local issue, and doesn't necessarily reflect nationwide opinion. The percentage stats are presumable based on the last council election in the area. So completely local.

Secondly, it's frankly laughable you are posting this result as some sort of SNP victory. The SNP candidate simply kept the SNP seat on the council after the previous SNP councillor stood down.

The real story here is the Labour candidate taking a seat from the Green councillor who also stood down. That would be unionist councillor taking a seat from a separatist councillor would it not?

Yes, read it and weep? I am more inclined to punch the air and tell you to "get it up ya!"...

That is surely a loss rather than a gain for you? Another of the "45" claiming a loss is in fact a victory. Good thing your lies are so laughable and particularly easy to read through.

Ha Ha. Making a bit of a fool of yourself there!

First of all a win is a win. You still have to win the election to hold the seat!

The second reason you just made a prat of yourself is that the election used the STV voting system. The first time it has been used to select two members in the same ward in a by-election. The Greens were defending the seat in spite of finishing third last time, meaning they had to gain significant ground just to hold what they had. The Greens actually gained 1.5% over the last election where Labour lost 7.5%!

Looking at those numbers it seems obvious that support for pro Independence parties is rising and support for unionism is falling. Pro Independence parties have increased their support by 9.2% as opposed to unionist parties where their share of the vote has dropped 8.8%.

But I suppose in the mind of a unionist falling support for unionist parties at an election means there is actually more support for unionist parties! :D
 
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I think it really matters that the SNP simply held their seat and Labour won a seat from the Greens. That's the take away from this by election really.

The new voting system means that it was really a truer representation of the voters politics. But obviously the SNP we're going to make gains as their electorate just want SNP victory at any cost. It's more telling the way all the other votes went.

Talking percentages in Scotland now is all but irrelevant when making comparisons. Because the SNP have politicised many who never voted in the past. This is not a bad thing necessarily, but it doesn't help when comparing percentages to previous results. Comparisons should be made with actual voting numbers for a better rresentation of gains / losses.
 
Yeah ok, should have read it properly.

As for the cons not giving you the power they promised, I just think they are being thorough before they do.
I wholeheartedly agree you should vote on your own affairs, as we should also.
Scots for scots, Eng for Eng etc. I bet it's come up before so no need to go into any more detail.
Then just sort out the oil fields and who owns what. I believe tho not sure national waters are only 15 miles so they may not all belong to Scotland. We may have to share them out.
And lastly sort the budget so per capita the spending is fair.

After that lot we should be done. Seems fair on both sides to me.
 
Ha ha.

Your back peddling is glorious to watch!

But, but, but............

I think it really matters that the SNP simply held their seat and Labour won a seat from the Greens. That's the take away from this by election really.

They only managed to win the seat from the Greens because the voting system changed. If the old voting system were still in place the Greens would have held their seat.

But obviously the SNP we're going to make gains as their electorate just want SNP victory at any cost. It's more telling the way all the other votes went.

This doesn't really make sense. SNP voters are going to vote SNP shocker! I agree it is quite telling the way the other votes went. They went to Independence supporting parties!

Talking percentages in Scotland now is all but irrelevant when making comparisons. Because the SNP have politicised many who never voted in the past. This is not a bad thing necessarily, but it doesn't help when comparing percentages to previous results. Comparisons should be made with actual voting numbers for a better rresentation of gains / losses.

You are not exactly clear in your writing. I may be wrong but are you talking about voter turnout? Are you trying to say that pro independence parties can get their voters out but unionist's can't be bothered?

Yeah ok, should have read it properly.

As for the cons not giving you the power they promised, I just think they are being thorough before they do.
I wholeheartedly agree you should vote on your own affairs, as we should also.
Scots for scots, Eng for Eng etc. I bet it's come up before so no need to go into any more detail.
Then just sort out the oil fields and who owns what. I believe tho not sure national waters are only 15 miles so they may not all belong to Scotland. We may have to share them out.
And lastly sort the budget so per capita the spending is fair.

After that lot we should be done. Seems fair on both sides to me.

Or go Independent and not need to seek permission from Westminster for anything.

The point of no return has been reached. The Tories and Labour are never going to treat Scotland as an equal. They never have and never will.
 
So what would happen to all the Scottish Regiments in the British Army if they did get their "FREEDOM" then?

Genuine question.
 
Yeah I get that Braveheart but what about the equipment?

Unless you chaps want to go back to fighting with swords and pointy sticks you'll need to purchase a fair amount of stuff for your protection.

And what would happen to the Foreign and Commonwealth chaps who are in the Scottish Regiments?

It has probably already been discussed by the powers that be.
 
Yeah I get that Braveheart but what about the equipment?

Unless you chaps want to go back to fighting with swords and pointy sticks you'll need to purchase a fair amount of stuff for your protection.

And this folks is another example of unionist colonialist thinking.

The Scottish armed forces would take a share of equipment from the UK army. We did after all pay for it!

Deary me! :eek:
 
And this folks is another example of unionist colonialist thinking.

The Scottish armed forces would take a share of equipment from the UK army. We did after all pay for it!

Deary me! :eek:

You really are as droll as a deep fried Mars bar.

Anything said in here you twist to suit your own pointy headed agenda.

It was a genuine question as I wasn't aware of what would happen. I couldn't give a fig about you or the wet and windy home of William Wallace.

But anyway back to your bleating...
 
You really are as droll as a deep fried Mars bar.

Anything said in here you twist to suit your own pointy headed agenda.

It was a genuine question as I wasn't aware of what would happen. I couldn't give a fig about you or the wet and windy home of William Wallace.

But anyway back to your bleating...

You should have asked the question this way then:

"I am unaware of what would happen with the armed forces if Scotland were to become Independent. Could someone enlighten me"

Instead of saying:

"Unless you chaps want to go back to fighting with swords and pointy sticks you'll need to purchase a fair amount of stuff for your protection."

Saying that implies you hold the belief that an Independent Scotland would have to start from scratch and would not be getting any equipment from the UK.

It's a deeply ingrained unconscious bias a lot of unionists hold.
 
Ha ha.

Your back peddling is glorious to watch!

But, but, but............



They only managed to win the seat from the Greens because the voting system changed. If the old voting system were still in place the Greens would have held their seat.



This doesn't really make sense. SNP voters are going to vote SNP shocker! I agree it is quite telling the way the other votes went. They went to Independence supporting parties!



You are not exactly clear in your writing. I may be wrong but are you talking about voter turnout? Are you trying to say that pro independence parties can get their voters out but unionist's can't be bothered?

I'm on a stupid tablet so more difficult to answer properly so it will just be point by point.

You are misunderstanding my meaning. If the old voting system was in place, people may have voted differently. There is no need for tactical voting with the new system, so the votes are a truer reflection of the electorates wishes. And they obviously wished for a unionist councillor.

Yes, you nailed it in that last sentence. The yes campaign was very effective at mobilising votes for their cause. Which is why voter turnout has increased since the referendum. Because those wishing for independence are out there voting. Those that voted no have considered the issue dealt with, and gone back to their old habits. This may well be a disinterest in council elections, or even general elections. They cast their vote for what matters to them, then back to the same old. Another indyref would see them
come back out and vote the way they wish, so I doubt there would be a different result should another ref take place. Certainly not a vastly different result.

I suspect there would be many Yes voters switching to No post referendum, and I'm sure you will claim the opposite would also be true. And I'm sure there would be some of that. But I think recent events shows a growing mistrust within SNP ranks.

What will be apparent though over the next few years at least, is that the mobilisation of the yes supporters will result in increased turnouts. Meaning a larger percentage increase in votes for pro-independence parties. I highly doubt that this will equate to a larger percentage of the general population being pro independence though, just a more vocal pro lobby. This may work well for you and force the hand into giving another referendum, but I doubt it will actually change the result.

But, but, but, I never back tracked at all. You just failed to understand my points. Which was probably as much my fault for not explaining it in primary schools English / weegie speak. Whatever you understand better.
 
I'm on a stupid tablet so more difficult to answer properly so it will just be point by point.

You are misunderstanding my meaning. If the old voting system was in place, people may have voted differently. There is no need for tactical voting with the new system, so the votes are a truer reflection of the electorates wishes. And they obviously wished for a unionist councillor.

But even that doesn't stand up as 58% of the vote went towards pro independence candidates.

Yes, you nailed it in that last sentence. The yes campaign was very effective at mobilising votes for their cause. Which is why voter turnout has increased since the referendum. Because those wishing for independence are out there voting. Those that voted no have considered the issue dealt with, and gone back to their old habits. This may well be a disinterest in council elections, or even general elections. They cast their vote for what matters to them, then back to the same old. Another indyref would see them
come back out and vote the way they wish, so I doubt there would be a different result should another ref take place. Certainly not a vastly different result.

That is pure speculation on your behalf with no evidence to back it up. Polls put the YES vote ahead since the referendum so any evidence there is goes against your speculation.

I suspect there would be many Yes voters switching to No post referendum, and I'm sure you will claim the opposite would also be true. And I'm sure there would be some of that. But I think recent events shows a growing mistrust within SNP ranks.

What evidence? Support for the SNP is holding at an all time high with support for Labour and the Conservative at an all time low.

What will be apparent though over the next few years at least, is that the mobilisation of the yes supporters will result in increased turnouts. Meaning a larger percentage increase in votes for pro-independence parties. I highly doubt that this will equate to a larger percentage of the general population being pro independence though, just a more vocal pro lobby. This may work well for you and force the hand into giving another referendum, but I doubt it will actually change the result.

Again pure speculation with nothing to back it up.
 
Have you even looked at the numbers rather than percentages?

Yes. What difference does that make to anything?

A little bit more bad news for you unionists! I nearly missed it myself but the SNP also won the Midlothian West by election with a 6.3% swing from Labour to the SNP.

Duh duh duh another one bites the dust!
 
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